My question is regardless of whether lane splitting is legal or not, isnt is hard to actually get caught doing it by anything other than a motorcycle cop, unless you are just being a complete ass about it. Yes, I am in California..and I do some ,on the face of it, idiotic things on my bike from time to time that probably ***** drivers off; however, most of it is just for plain safety.
Loud Pipe Perspective
41 - 60 of 83 Posts
Re: Look at me Perspective
a six houndred supersport is far less of a beginers bike than my 955 triumph speed triple, for starters they make very similar peak hp and unlike the triumph the i4 screamers make it like a lightswitch, coupled with lightweight and superman handling this is a recipe for disaster, a true beginners bike may be more along the line of a 500 ninja, or the variety of 250 standard/ cruiser types. perhaps a dual sport thumper, while tall, they are light, easy to handle and have friendly engine charecteristics.
While I agree that very few people need, much less can effectivly ride a modern liter bike, we live in america, land of exess, land of the 8 passenger suv, fully equiped with the single occupancy comuter, 60 in. tvs, pasenger sedans with over 250 hp and a top speed of 140 mph, sport cars with 400+ hp why would motorcycles be any diferent? why do I have a liter class motorcycle?, I don't particularly like to shift like a f1 car, I would rather just roll it on, and the occasional power wheelie past the country club is cheaper than a visit to the shrink and in my opinion much more fun than talking about my mother..
a six houndred supersport is far less of a beginers bike than my 955 triumph speed triple, for starters they make very similar peak hp and unlike the triumph the i4 screamers make it like a lightswitch, coupled with lightweight and superman handling this is a recipe for disaster, a true beginners bike may be more along the line of a 500 ninja, or the variety of 250 standard/ cruiser types. perhaps a dual sport thumper, while tall, they are light, easy to handle and have friendly engine charecteristics.
While I agree that very few people need, much less can effectivly ride a modern liter bike, we live in america, land of exess, land of the 8 passenger suv, fully equiped with the single occupancy comuter, 60 in. tvs, pasenger sedans with over 250 hp and a top speed of 140 mph, sport cars with 400+ hp why would motorcycles be any diferent? why do I have a liter class motorcycle?, I don't particularly like to shift like a f1 car, I would rather just roll it on, and the occasional power wheelie past the country club is cheaper than a visit to the shrink and in my opinion much more fun than talking about my mother..
Indeed; I once almost caused a pile-up in Florentine rush hour by trying to stop for a red light. It was amazing: chaos at 40-50 kph dense urban traffic, scooters everywhere, 3 lanes squeezed out to 6; and I'm the one who almost caused the accident in my rental Skoda trying to follow traffic laws (but not 'rules', obviously). I leartned very quickly that I needed to go with the flow.
Incidently, that's also how motorcycles stay safe; not by following the rules exactly, but be reading the action, interpreting, and reacting intelligently, even if not legally.
I live in CA, so lane splitting (or lane 'sharing' as my peace and love traffic engineer buddy with an oilhead Boxer calls it) is legal, but I get the sour face thing, too. Jealosy? I'm sure that's in the mix along with frustration, ignorance, and plain old pissy attitude. I use judgement always; I don;t always take the split, and almost never over about 35 mph. I find it a bit spooky when somebody splits at 60-70-whatever; why bother? And for the record, I've seen the 'hooligan' thing just as much on hogs as rice rockets; the main difference is the speed....
I say ride smart, be courteous in a rational manner, and seek the flow of traffic, not the letter of the law or what you think ought to happen. No matter who is 'right', we will always lose a face off with a car.
Incidently, that's also how motorcycles stay safe; not by following the rules exactly, but be reading the action, interpreting, and reacting intelligently, even if not legally.
I live in CA, so lane splitting (or lane 'sharing' as my peace and love traffic engineer buddy with an oilhead Boxer calls it) is legal, but I get the sour face thing, too. Jealosy? I'm sure that's in the mix along with frustration, ignorance, and plain old pissy attitude. I use judgement always; I don;t always take the split, and almost never over about 35 mph. I find it a bit spooky when somebody splits at 60-70-whatever; why bother? And for the record, I've seen the 'hooligan' thing just as much on hogs as rice rockets; the main difference is the speed....
I say ride smart, be courteous in a rational manner, and seek the flow of traffic, not the letter of the law or what you think ought to happen. No matter who is 'right', we will always lose a face off with a car.
Here in Portugal, lane spliting is tolerated, except with continuous line. Cages are mostly friendly (they weren't a few years ago, but that's mostly gone now), and, with narrow lanes, smaller cars, same bikes (without harleys) we go along together fine.
Well sometimes sh%&* happens...
Well sometimes sh%&* happens...
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243 Posts
A.) I don't have a problem with SUVs, I have a problem with people who can't properly drive them. A minivan can be just as bad! My truck's gas bill is high enough, thank you. And I wouldn't trust national healthcare; have you seen the military's?
B&C.) Agreed.
D.) I know I'm alone with this, but I again put it in the hands of drivers, not the tool itself. For a breif 'What was that turn', or 'Hey, hit traffic, be an extra 15' doesn't bother me. If you ban this, you might as well bann GPS since people would be looking at the map for thier next turn and not looking at the road. Both take the same about of attention for me.
E.) Ignoring laws you don't agree with makes you part of the problem. That said, I think lane spitting should be legal, but with limits such as 'cannot exceed traffic flow by 10mph' or something to that effect for safety reasons. Back in CA I've seen too many times someone just cut over in stop and go traffic without looking, and seen many bike fly by going 20-30 over. Luckly, have yet to see both in the same event, that could get messy.
B&C.) Agreed.
D.) I know I'm alone with this, but I again put it in the hands of drivers, not the tool itself. For a breif 'What was that turn', or 'Hey, hit traffic, be an extra 15' doesn't bother me. If you ban this, you might as well bann GPS since people would be looking at the map for thier next turn and not looking at the road. Both take the same about of attention for me.
E.) Ignoring laws you don't agree with makes you part of the problem. That said, I think lane spitting should be legal, but with limits such as 'cannot exceed traffic flow by 10mph' or something to that effect for safety reasons. Back in CA I've seen too many times someone just cut over in stop and go traffic without looking, and seen many bike fly by going 20-30 over. Luckly, have yet to see both in the same event, that could get messy.
Joined
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1,072 Posts
Re: Look at me Perspective
mesoglea just ignore longride. He does the same stupid argument everytime. You are doing the right thing and are reducing your risk of injury in case of accident. longride is part of the baby boomer Gray Pony Tail Brotherhood that sees helmets as a freedom thing . I call it a freedumb thing... Hey you wouldn't go into combat without a helmet and I wouldn't go rockclimg, ski, rollerblade or bicycle without a helmet. Great post mesoglea
mesoglea just ignore longride. He does the same stupid argument everytime. You are doing the right thing and are reducing your risk of injury in case of accident. longride is part of the baby boomer Gray Pony Tail Brotherhood that sees helmets as a freedom thing . I call it a freedumb thing... Hey you wouldn't go into combat without a helmet and I wouldn't go rockclimg, ski, rollerblade or bicycle without a helmet. Great post mesoglea
I don't think it matters a damn what bike you ride or how noisey it is ,most cagers seem to get pissed off when you lane split.They hate to sit in traffic and let a bike rider get ahead of them,or get to close to thier paint work.It makes them nervous and angry.I've lost count of the number of times cagers have closed the gap in slow moving traffic or accelerated away from the lights and pushed me over into the next lane.They even get pissed off when you park your bike in a paid car space when there's no dedicated motorcycle parking bays available.Lets face it,most of them can't think outside thier comfortable little boxes.
Joined
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1,072 Posts
Re: Look at me Perspective
Thanks man..Last time I fell I was out cold for a day...
Thanks man..Last time I fell I was out cold for a day...
Re: Look at me I'm cool without a helmet because I'm a rebel
I hope you are joking.
Motorcycle safety is a serious thing. You can laugh all you want but the men and women defending your right to scoff military law are being injured by the same attitude you are displaying.
Judging your reply, I can tell you never have been through an MSF course. Take one, you might learn something.
I bet you're never going to drop your bike either.
I hope you are joking.
Motorcycle safety is a serious thing. You can laugh all you want but the men and women defending your right to scoff military law are being injured by the same attitude you are displaying.
Judging your reply, I can tell you never have been through an MSF course. Take one, you might learn something.
I bet you're never going to drop your bike either.
Lane splitting is legal here in Texas. Legislators are not all out to get motorcyclists I guess. Personally I have always lane splitted, cautiously, as cagers have been known to open their doors at inopportune times. I couldn't imagine sitting behind a cage in a traffic jamb, if fact I have never seen anyone on a bike here in South Texas sit in a traffic jamb behind a cage. The exhaust must be very unhealthy.
Re: Look at me Perspective
Interesting...
You criticize that "we all get lumped together"; yet, primarily you're linking irresponsible behavior with one specific age group and one type of bike. I'm surprised you haven't seen cruisers or tourers ridden by more "mature" adults perform completely foolish/reckless maneuvers on the street?
I'm also surprised by your position. You're in the U.S. military to protect/defend the freedom provided by the constitution (thank you very much!) and yet you're proposing restrictions and/or removal of it. We need people in this country to be more responsible. That's a cultural problem for which more "rules" will not correct.
While I completely support the education process, I think it's naive to believe that simply mandating an MSF course is going to counter a lack of using common sense.
Tiered licensing? Do you really believe that the cagers nesbit writes about would have reacted/felt differently if the "___Flyers" were on 250cc Ninjas? Furthermore, most injuries/fatalities occur at speeds easily obtainable by almost any size bike. And while an inexperienced rider could most certainly get into "trouble" faster on a liter bike, many of today's 600's are more nimble and well over 100hp!...hardly newbie territory. But, that's not the point. It's simply not equitable to force a new rider to one level of performance and allow a new driver to get behind the wheel of an 05 Mustang GT or an H2 Hummer for that matter.
Finally, regarding safety gear. If you're "brave" enough to wear something inadequate for the activity, you should be brave enough to deal with the potential consequences. Insurance companies should have policies that encourage personal accountability. Why should my rates go up because someone else decided to play the odds and lost? Let that person bear the premium hike.
By the way, privilege and right are synonyms.
Interesting...
You criticize that "we all get lumped together"; yet, primarily you're linking irresponsible behavior with one specific age group and one type of bike. I'm surprised you haven't seen cruisers or tourers ridden by more "mature" adults perform completely foolish/reckless maneuvers on the street?
I'm also surprised by your position. You're in the U.S. military to protect/defend the freedom provided by the constitution (thank you very much!) and yet you're proposing restrictions and/or removal of it. We need people in this country to be more responsible. That's a cultural problem for which more "rules" will not correct.
While I completely support the education process, I think it's naive to believe that simply mandating an MSF course is going to counter a lack of using common sense.
Tiered licensing? Do you really believe that the cagers nesbit writes about would have reacted/felt differently if the "___Flyers" were on 250cc Ninjas? Furthermore, most injuries/fatalities occur at speeds easily obtainable by almost any size bike. And while an inexperienced rider could most certainly get into "trouble" faster on a liter bike, many of today's 600's are more nimble and well over 100hp!...hardly newbie territory. But, that's not the point. It's simply not equitable to force a new rider to one level of performance and allow a new driver to get behind the wheel of an 05 Mustang GT or an H2 Hummer for that matter.
Finally, regarding safety gear. If you're "brave" enough to wear something inadequate for the activity, you should be brave enough to deal with the potential consequences. Insurance companies should have policies that encourage personal accountability. Why should my rates go up because someone else decided to play the odds and lost? Let that person bear the premium hike.
By the way, privilege and right are synonyms.
Joined
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1,900 Posts
Re: Look at me I'm cool without a helmet because I'm a rebel
Well, you got me, I was joking with SBB. I did drop my 4th bike about 4 years after I took the MSF class. I haven't dropped any of my last 15 or so since, on or off the track.
Don't jump too quick.
Well, you got me, I was joking with SBB. I did drop my 4th bike about 4 years after I took the MSF class. I haven't dropped any of my last 15 or so since, on or off the track.
Don't jump too quick.
Joined
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243 Posts
Re: Look at me I'm cool without a helmet because I'm a rebel
1.) All safety is an serious thing [period].
2.) He has a right to laugh at military law. He's not held to it (Am I remembering right Fenton?), and many of the requirments seem rediculous. Most take away from us the very freedoms we're protecting. (With reason, mostly). I'm not personally offended, nor can I understand why you seem to be.
3.) Not all military requirements and actions make sense or get thought out. How many policy makers create rules/requirements on things they know nothing about and don't research (or listen to advice...). Again, sometime you just grin, bear, and move on hopefully to be able to laugh at it later. These include some safety regs.
4.) I suggest a deep breath, you seem to be getting quite heated about this.
IMHO, FWIW
1.) All safety is an serious thing [period].
2.) He has a right to laugh at military law. He's not held to it (Am I remembering right Fenton?), and many of the requirments seem rediculous. Most take away from us the very freedoms we're protecting. (With reason, mostly). I'm not personally offended, nor can I understand why you seem to be.
3.) Not all military requirements and actions make sense or get thought out. How many policy makers create rules/requirements on things they know nothing about and don't research (or listen to advice...). Again, sometime you just grin, bear, and move on hopefully to be able to laugh at it later. These include some safety regs.
4.) I suggest a deep breath, you seem to be getting quite heated about this.
IMHO, FWIW
I know exactly why it pisses you off. Because when in a car, the perception of what is going on is very different than when on a bike. In a car, the bike slipping past you with little room to spare seems reckless. However, when you are on the bike the cars around you seem to not be moving at all, and a few inches of clearance is really quite enough.
It's the same exact reality, just 2 different perceptions of it. Maybe both are skewed away from reality.
It's the same exact reality, just 2 different perceptions of it. Maybe both are skewed away from reality.
Joined
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1,900 Posts
Re: Look at me I'm cool without a helmet because I'm a rebel
My comment had nothing to do with the military or safety. SBB (KP) was pointing out the activities he would wear a helmet. I was playing with him not to forget the shower. He seemed to acknowledge the jab.
As far as safety goes, I bet I wear more protection on a bike than most- EVERY time I ride.
Hutchinator, you know I'm never that creative trying to ***** someone off.(thanks for the vote, though)
My comment had nothing to do with the military or safety. SBB (KP) was pointing out the activities he would wear a helmet. I was playing with him not to forget the shower. He seemed to acknowledge the jab.
As far as safety goes, I bet I wear more protection on a bike than most- EVERY time I ride.
Hutchinator, you know I'm never that creative trying to ***** someone off.(thanks for the vote, though)
Complacency can kill.
I never said he couldn't scoff our laws.
I get heated because 4 military members have died from motorcycle accidents in my area in the last few years. One man retired after 20 years of service only to get hit by a teenager while she was talking on her cell phone! He wasn't even out for a year. We had one guy get hit and then go down less than a week. The Naval Safety Center is hot on motorcycle accidents. That heat is pressed onto the commands.
Complacency can kill.
Many military actions seem stupid to the end user. Most of the time they are not high enough on the ladder to see the big picture and the end product. Many things are put into place from what we call "Knee Jerk Reaction".
As for the safety issues and our requirements tell me what you think is stupid, why and how to correct it.
I never said he couldn't scoff our laws.
I get heated because 4 military members have died from motorcycle accidents in my area in the last few years. One man retired after 20 years of service only to get hit by a teenager while she was talking on her cell phone! He wasn't even out for a year. We had one guy get hit and then go down less than a week. The Naval Safety Center is hot on motorcycle accidents. That heat is pressed onto the commands.
Complacency can kill.
Many military actions seem stupid to the end user. Most of the time they are not high enough on the ladder to see the big picture and the end product. Many things are put into place from what we call "Knee Jerk Reaction".
As for the safety issues and our requirements tell me what you think is stupid, why and how to correct it.
Wrong science
The Doppler Effect has nothing to do with inability to hear something in your vicinity. The Doppler Effect is the apparent change in frequency of the sound emitted by a moving object because the velocity of the object itself will shorten the perceived wavelength on approach and lengthen in as it moves away.
Why the exhaust from the open-piped bike can't be heard on the highway until it is beside/in front of you is because the sound waves propagate from the opening of the exhaust pipe. Likewise, the sound is much louder from a bike facing away from you than a bike facing towards you because that is the direction the sound waves get pushed out.
I'm sure (at least I really hope) you understand that concept, but you just put the wrong name on it.
The Doppler Effect has nothing to do with inability to hear something in your vicinity. The Doppler Effect is the apparent change in frequency of the sound emitted by a moving object because the velocity of the object itself will shorten the perceived wavelength on approach and lengthen in as it moves away.
Why the exhaust from the open-piped bike can't be heard on the highway until it is beside/in front of you is because the sound waves propagate from the opening of the exhaust pipe. Likewise, the sound is much louder from a bike facing away from you than a bike facing towards you because that is the direction the sound waves get pushed out.
I'm sure (at least I really hope) you understand that concept, but you just put the wrong name on it.
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