Don't buy a slow Harley and you won't need aftermarket pipes. I bet you only gain power at the top of the rev range. I would also wager everything you gain up top, you lose down low. Buy the new Gixxer 1K. You will be pleased with the performance from the stock motor.
Loud Pipes Lose Rights?
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I bet your wrong. Any 2 into one collector is better for power, especially low end power, on a Harley than a stock 2 pipe system. I'll assume you were just talking out your butt on that one, since you are 100% wrong. If the "Gixxer" is so fast, why does every one I see have an aftermarket loud pipe on it? Would that be because the power sucks, or they are just trying to be an annoyance? You pick.
Yes, Loud Pipes do Lose Rights
I would have to agree that loud pipes lose rights. This is the number one issue that non-riders complain to me about. The blame can be spread around quite a bit.
To the riders: Wake up! Current sport bikes have incredibly well designed exhaust systems. Not only do they flow as well as possible while staying within the legal noise limits, but lots of bikes come with titanium exhaust systems. The days of bolting on a new exhaust and picking up 10 hp and dropping 20 lbs are gone. Spend your cash on a track school. It will make you faster then the new exhaust and is transferable to any bike.
To the exhaust manufactures: How about a decibel reading in the spec sheets. No exhaust manufacture that I know of lists a decibel rating for their exhaust systems. They seem to only group them into the subjective "Street" and "Race" categories. Except that one company's "street" system may be louder than another's "race" system.
A rider then buys a "street" system only to find out that after they spent $1500 for the exhaust system, jet kit, and installation their so-called "street" system is ear splitting loud. But who is going to roll the dice on another system and sell their brand new loud system for maybe $.50 on the dollar.
To the motorcycle magazines: How about listing a decibel reading when you test an exhaust system. Decibel meters arent that expensive and it would give a potential buyer some real information to base their purchase on. The industry standard of "Oh, its not all that loud" really doesnt cut it. To be fair, one of the magazines has started doing this, but Im not sure which one.
To the police: How about some enforcement. Buy a few decibel meters and enforce the noise ordinances. My hometown did this targeting exhaust systems and radios. It didnt take too long for people to get the message and turn down the volume and put some reasonable exhausts on their vehicles.
I would have to agree that loud pipes lose rights. This is the number one issue that non-riders complain to me about. The blame can be spread around quite a bit.
To the riders: Wake up! Current sport bikes have incredibly well designed exhaust systems. Not only do they flow as well as possible while staying within the legal noise limits, but lots of bikes come with titanium exhaust systems. The days of bolting on a new exhaust and picking up 10 hp and dropping 20 lbs are gone. Spend your cash on a track school. It will make you faster then the new exhaust and is transferable to any bike.
To the exhaust manufactures: How about a decibel reading in the spec sheets. No exhaust manufacture that I know of lists a decibel rating for their exhaust systems. They seem to only group them into the subjective "Street" and "Race" categories. Except that one company's "street" system may be louder than another's "race" system.
A rider then buys a "street" system only to find out that after they spent $1500 for the exhaust system, jet kit, and installation their so-called "street" system is ear splitting loud. But who is going to roll the dice on another system and sell their brand new loud system for maybe $.50 on the dollar.
To the motorcycle magazines: How about listing a decibel reading when you test an exhaust system. Decibel meters arent that expensive and it would give a potential buyer some real information to base their purchase on. The industry standard of "Oh, its not all that loud" really doesnt cut it. To be fair, one of the magazines has started doing this, but Im not sure which one.
To the police: How about some enforcement. Buy a few decibel meters and enforce the noise ordinances. My hometown did this targeting exhaust systems and radios. It didnt take too long for people to get the message and turn down the volume and put some reasonable exhausts on their vehicles.
r1der is far more right than wrong Longride. A PROPERLY tuned 2 into 1 should give a balance of performance increase across the RPM range but all 2 into 1 pipes are not created equal ... especially as each engine is modified the differing performance characteristics require differing pipe designs. More often than not HP is increased at upper RPM's at the expense of low end torque. For reference here is one result of a quick Google search to maybe help shed a bit more light on the issue ---- http://www.peganet.net/personal_pages/ironman1/harley.html
FWIW - I have no experience with Harleys but have a bit with tweeking Ducati V-twins. Many of the same flow issues exist with these engines.
FWIW - I have no experience with Harleys but have a bit with tweeking Ducati V-twins. Many of the same flow issues exist with these engines.
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146 Posts
I think it would be just as scary to be passed by a group of cruiser riders at 100 miles an hour(beleive me it happens)
and loud sport bikes are really loud
and loud sport bikes are really loud
Re: Yes, Loud Pipes do Lose Rights
Sport Rider had an issue where they tested 30+ exhausts for the R6. They had db readings (idle and max and maybe midrange) and power and torque curves before and after. Pretty informative article, but I'm not sure how relevant the results would be to any bike but an R6. The problem is there are so many manufacturers and bikes that we'd be looking at thousands of exhaust tests to get comprehensive info on these things.....
Sport Rider had an issue where they tested 30+ exhausts for the R6. They had db readings (idle and max and maybe midrange) and power and torque curves before and after. Pretty informative article, but I'm not sure how relevant the results would be to any bike but an R6. The problem is there are so many manufacturers and bikes that we'd be looking at thousands of exhaust tests to get comprehensive info on these things.....
I agree with the pipes having a reasonable decibel level, cruiser or rocket. Keep in mind that going 100 mph on a modern sport bike is so effortless that it isnt necessarily dangerous. Thats what they are built for. Depends on the volume of traffic, cant be on the track every day....
No, actually r1rider isn't far more right. Since you have nothing but a link to show, as to my personal experience tuning and modifying many different Harley's, I'd say you weren't even qualified to say anything. But hey, they always say opinions are like A-holes.
It's not us, it's them!
I own Harleys and Ducatis so I'm an equal opportunity basher.
1. Everytime I hear some weekend warrior go by with straight pipes and wide open throttle I cringe and say I'm going to sell my hogs.
2. Everytime I see a bunch of squids go by on 1 wheel I cringe and say I'm going to sell my Dukes (I also have an overwhelming hankering to swerve into thier lane, but I digress)
My point is both actions are viewed negatively by the non-bike riding public and by regular riding joes like we are.
But in slight defense of louder pipes (not straight pipes), on the freeway on my quiet Duc many more cagers start to pull in on my lane until they here my horn versus when I'm riding my Harley with aftermarket pipes which they hear without need of a horn.
I own Harleys and Ducatis so I'm an equal opportunity basher.
1. Everytime I hear some weekend warrior go by with straight pipes and wide open throttle I cringe and say I'm going to sell my hogs.
2. Everytime I see a bunch of squids go by on 1 wheel I cringe and say I'm going to sell my Dukes (I also have an overwhelming hankering to swerve into thier lane, but I digress)
My point is both actions are viewed negatively by the non-bike riding public and by regular riding joes like we are.
But in slight defense of louder pipes (not straight pipes), on the freeway on my quiet Duc many more cagers start to pull in on my lane until they here my horn versus when I'm riding my Harley with aftermarket pipes which they hear without need of a horn.
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3,415 Posts
I like quiet bikes myself. Nothing pisses non-riders off more than loud pipes. The differance between loud cans on a sportbike and loud pipes on a cruiser is most sportbikes are fairly quiet in town, people don't really open them up till they get away from everyone in the twisties.
Most of the cruisers I see are in town yo-yo'ing the throttle at stop lights like 2 year olds with their first hard-on. While a tuned exhaust system might work better on a V-twin. Open drag pipes only improve power at high RPM's, and they rob power at lower RPM's where most of these feller's ride, so basicaly you're making a weak bike even weaker, while at the same time you're irritating everyone around you with your childish "look at me" behavior.
Good job!, now please go find another sport and leave mine alone... Maybe jet-ski's or better yet, cliff-diving.
Most of the cruisers I see are in town yo-yo'ing the throttle at stop lights like 2 year olds with their first hard-on. While a tuned exhaust system might work better on a V-twin. Open drag pipes only improve power at high RPM's, and they rob power at lower RPM's where most of these feller's ride, so basicaly you're making a weak bike even weaker, while at the same time you're irritating everyone around you with your childish "look at me" behavior.
Good job!, now please go find another sport and leave mine alone... Maybe jet-ski's or better yet, cliff-diving.
Talking out of my butt? Show me a dyno where you gain power everywhere from just an exhaust. Don't just tell me I'm wrong, show me.
I always use the stock pipe. I like my neighbors and when I scratch up the stock muffler on the track, a used muffler with about 50 miles is available on eBay for $50.
I always use the stock pipe. I like my neighbors and when I scratch up the stock muffler on the track, a used muffler with about 50 miles is available on eBay for $50.
Re: Yes, Loud Pipes do Lose Rights
Good point about the mags and law enforcement. I have an recent issue of Dirt Rider where Jimmy Lewis states, in so many words, in his review of the Honda CRF450X that the bike is so well tuned and has such a smooth broad powerband a purchaser would be a fool to replace its exhaust. And, it's quiet. I believe that comment can be applied to the majority of the bikes being manufactured today. Dirt Rider has definitely taken the stance to criticizes loud exhausts. The off-road community I think is probably more aware of losing rights to ride than the on-road community; the issues being "threat" to the environment, recklessness, and noise.
What really pisses me off though is when legislation goes straight to banning riding in certain areas or on certain roadways, skipping the whole law enforcment solution. The laws against excessive noise are already on the books, enforce them.
Good point about the mags and law enforcement. I have an recent issue of Dirt Rider where Jimmy Lewis states, in so many words, in his review of the Honda CRF450X that the bike is so well tuned and has such a smooth broad powerband a purchaser would be a fool to replace its exhaust. And, it's quiet. I believe that comment can be applied to the majority of the bikes being manufactured today. Dirt Rider has definitely taken the stance to criticizes loud exhausts. The off-road community I think is probably more aware of losing rights to ride than the on-road community; the issues being "threat" to the environment, recklessness, and noise.
What really pisses me off though is when legislation goes straight to banning riding in certain areas or on certain roadways, skipping the whole law enforcment solution. The laws against excessive noise are already on the books, enforce them.
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17,449 Posts
When I see someone with really loud pipes, be it on a cruiser or sportbike, I tend to believe that the rider is a dilletante type... doesn't ride very often or very far. One of the worst things for fatigue on a long trip is a blaring exhaust. None of the people I know who put on lots and lots of miles have particularly loud exhausts.
I'd never run one.
- rant
However, as anyone who remembers the abortive "Less Sound - More Ground" campaign of the 70's would know, loud exhausts are just an excuse for people who want to restrict us and will make up any excuse to do so. We quieted our bikes and they closed (and continue to close) more public land to dirtbikers. Look at the senseless trouble the snowmobilers have had in Yellowstone from the Sierra Club Earth First eco-freak wackos.
Loud pipes work against us, but even if we made all of our bikes whisper quiet the safety-nazis would still look for other excuses to harass us. Motorcycles by their very nature frighten the typical "afraid of his/her own shadow" middle class sheeple. On top of that they are jealous of motorcyclists who obviously aren't a pack of whining cowards. Go to a few local City council meetings and you'll see these theetie-weeties lobbying the municipalities for intrusive ordinances in their pathetic attempts to assuage their fear of everything and to be "safe". These are the sort of people who support fascist govt initiatives like the Drug War, Goals 2000/No Child Left Behind, Racial Quotas or Campus Speech Codes. They are best dealt with by direct resistance not negotiation.
-rant off
I'd never run one.
- rant
However, as anyone who remembers the abortive "Less Sound - More Ground" campaign of the 70's would know, loud exhausts are just an excuse for people who want to restrict us and will make up any excuse to do so. We quieted our bikes and they closed (and continue to close) more public land to dirtbikers. Look at the senseless trouble the snowmobilers have had in Yellowstone from the Sierra Club Earth First eco-freak wackos.
Loud pipes work against us, but even if we made all of our bikes whisper quiet the safety-nazis would still look for other excuses to harass us. Motorcycles by their very nature frighten the typical "afraid of his/her own shadow" middle class sheeple. On top of that they are jealous of motorcyclists who obviously aren't a pack of whining cowards. Go to a few local City council meetings and you'll see these theetie-weeties lobbying the municipalities for intrusive ordinances in their pathetic attempts to assuage their fear of everything and to be "safe". These are the sort of people who support fascist govt initiatives like the Drug War, Goals 2000/No Child Left Behind, Racial Quotas or Campus Speech Codes. They are best dealt with by direct resistance not negotiation.
-rant off
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