MO Reader Question: Hard-To-Turn CBR600RR?
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All right, who's the dipstick that moderated eekadog's post down as "off-topic"?
He said "Let's see some pics of the new bike!". Sounds on-topic to me...
He said "Let's see some pics of the new bike!". Sounds on-topic to me...
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323 Posts
"As to the RR being hard to turn, I guess it is, compared to a CRF450. "
One thing I love about off-road riding, rear-wheel steering!!
One thing I love about off-road riding, rear-wheel steering!!
Kevin, you are counter steering right?
Kevin, you are counter steering right?
That means steering the opposite way you want to go when going faster then parking lot speeds.
Some people call this pushing on the bar on the side of the bike you want to go.
If already are counter steering then like was said above the steering leverage on the average dirt bike is much higher then the CBR600RR.
Why you ask? Because the bars are much wider on a dirt bike then on the CBR. Why is that? Because they can be. The CBR which must take into account speeds well above a 100 mph has to have short handle bars so that your arms and body don't stick out much past the fairing and catch the wind. Bottom line is you pay for this when you are trying to steer at slower speed.
Also, try reading some books on the subject, two of my favs are:
Twist of the Wrist: The Motorcycle Roadracers Handbook by Keith Code (Paperback - May 12, 1997)
A Twist of the Wrist 2: The Basics of High-Performance Motorcycle Riding by Keith Code (Paperback - Aug 31, 1997)
Kevin, you are counter steering right?
That means steering the opposite way you want to go when going faster then parking lot speeds.
Some people call this pushing on the bar on the side of the bike you want to go.
If already are counter steering then like was said above the steering leverage on the average dirt bike is much higher then the CBR600RR.
Why you ask? Because the bars are much wider on a dirt bike then on the CBR. Why is that? Because they can be. The CBR which must take into account speeds well above a 100 mph has to have short handle bars so that your arms and body don't stick out much past the fairing and catch the wind. Bottom line is you pay for this when you are trying to steer at slower speed.
Also, try reading some books on the subject, two of my favs are:
Twist of the Wrist: The Motorcycle Roadracers Handbook by Keith Code (Paperback - May 12, 1997)
A Twist of the Wrist 2: The Basics of High-Performance Motorcycle Riding by Keith Code (Paperback - Aug 31, 1997)
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Interesting. My brother, who is a long-time dirt bike and small street bike rider, just bought his first large (750cc) sportbike. His comments were similar to Kevin's.
I always have to "re-program" when switching from the 620 SM to the CBR1000. Maybe a light, sporting twin is the answer.
I always have to "re-program" when switching from the 620 SM to the CBR1000. Maybe a light, sporting twin is the answer.
I agree pix are worth 1000 words.
By the way, Gabe, the word you wanted was FLOUT not FLAUNT the laws of physics.
And I keep seeing THEN used instead of THAN.
Dirt bikes have more steering leverage THAN a sport bike.
One more thing; if you are going to follow all the traffic rules and don't own a race track, why buy a sport bike? Why buy any bike?
None of this has anything to do with silentgrayfellow who rightly commented on the dipstick's idea of what is 'off-topic'.
By the way, Gabe, the word you wanted was FLOUT not FLAUNT the laws of physics.
And I keep seeing THEN used instead of THAN.
Dirt bikes have more steering leverage THAN a sport bike.
One more thing; if you are going to follow all the traffic rules and don't own a race track, why buy a sport bike? Why buy any bike?
None of this has anything to do with silentgrayfellow who rightly commented on the dipstick's idea of what is 'off-topic'.
Those stubby little bars have something to do with the slow steering feel. Also, there is a different rhythm to road riding vs. the dirt. The contact patches are wider, the tires are grippier, the road surface is more adhesive, etc. than you find in the dirt. The position of the body is lower; the transition of the body weight from foot peg to foot peg is different than that of a dirt bike. Get the flow right and that thing will steer very quickly indeed. Get it wrong and it may feel like a truck. Practice, practice, practice. Go slow at first, get the sense of smoothness and let that smoothness build as your speed increases. If you don't feel smooth, slow down.
Gabe's spot on in his comments, but as you're no doubt already read in the myriad of posts...
Newbies to riding clip-on sportbikes often think the bike turns can turn on a dime without input, but they're meant to go fast and remain very stable, so they never are as light and nimble as on dirtbike/enduro -- both of which are very squirrelly for fast street riding. Beside mass distribution, the handlebars leverage are key to different feel, but you can compensate using tips everyone's sending, including:
(1) Counter-steering (pushing on bar you to turn into) will do you wonders
(2a) using knee pressure (on opposite side) gives you feedback control, or (2b) you can use the old off-road peg pressure trick to get a little extra subtle turn control
(3) learn to roll your ass on the seat in the direction you're turning as you shift your weight (yes you actually have to move around a bit if you want to get the most of your body mass) for smooth leaning and control and your RR will track just fine.
Mind you, it's no 250 off-roader, but with a little experimentation with body/seating positioning it'll felt like a running back over a linebacker. Practice, experiment, and go slow until you get a good feel for the bike. Wickedly good bike.
Newbies to riding clip-on sportbikes often think the bike turns can turn on a dime without input, but they're meant to go fast and remain very stable, so they never are as light and nimble as on dirtbike/enduro -- both of which are very squirrelly for fast street riding. Beside mass distribution, the handlebars leverage are key to different feel, but you can compensate using tips everyone's sending, including:
(1) Counter-steering (pushing on bar you to turn into) will do you wonders
(2a) using knee pressure (on opposite side) gives you feedback control, or (2b) you can use the old off-road peg pressure trick to get a little extra subtle turn control
(3) learn to roll your ass on the seat in the direction you're turning as you shift your weight (yes you actually have to move around a bit if you want to get the most of your body mass) for smooth leaning and control and your RR will track just fine.
Mind you, it's no 250 off-roader, but with a little experimentation with body/seating positioning it'll felt like a running back over a linebacker. Practice, experiment, and go slow until you get a good feel for the bike. Wickedly good bike.
I think a couple of posters - and Gabe - nailed it re "recalibration" when changing from dirt to High Per Street.
Last year, a friend let me take a nice, long ride on his KLR650. Liked everything about it except the street skittish 21" ft - there is that recalibration thing again - and the lack of towing capacity.
When I returned it, jumped directly on The Fat Lady - aka Honda ST11 for a quick run to Blairsville to do some errands. Two curves onto ********* Road, I stopped to see if I had ANY air in my tires. Funny how fast I "uncalibrated". If I ever finally take a test ride on a Uly, ST3s or GS12, I'm financially committed.
As for ********* Road. Forget it! I never see WolfPen Gap squids on my secret road and I intend to keep it that way.
Last year, a friend let me take a nice, long ride on his KLR650. Liked everything about it except the street skittish 21" ft - there is that recalibration thing again - and the lack of towing capacity.
When I returned it, jumped directly on The Fat Lady - aka Honda ST11 for a quick run to Blairsville to do some errands. Two curves onto ********* Road, I stopped to see if I had ANY air in my tires. Funny how fast I "uncalibrated". If I ever finally take a test ride on a Uly, ST3s or GS12, I'm financially committed.
As for ********* Road. Forget it! I never see WolfPen Gap squids on my secret road and I intend to keep it that way.
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