Motorcycle Forums banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
I think everyone would agree that there isn't a rider quite at the level of Rossi, although the talent pool in MotoGP is quite deep. No one, Hayden and Pedrosa included, is at Rossi's level yet.



However, do not forget that MGP is very much a team sport. Factory, crew and rider all have to perform to win. Rossi's team and factory was not getting it done at many points in the season. It could certainly be argued that HRC hasn't been getting it done as of late, either. HRC admitted in a CNN report that they couldn't solve the problems with the developmental clutch on Hayden's bike. Posturing and disinformation, maybe. But they've had their own problems, obviously.



If Rossi is to win, fine. But the last thing anyone wanted to see was the championship potentially decided by a hairbrained move by Hayden's own team mate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
You're high. In this situation, a team mate should never try a low percentage move like that.



I don't like team orders, either--and Honda has stated that they have none--but I'm sure they are very pissed that Pedrosa would try something so risky. He had almost no chance of making that pass.



Once Hayden got by, Pedrosa should have used some discretion. He didn't and deserves every bit of ire he gets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Please, of course you could argue what ifs until the end of time. That's not the point. This was something that was absolutely avoidable and should not have happened.



However the respective parties achieved their point totals, they were there. The outcome was ready to be decided. It's totally unfathomable that Hayden should be DNF'd by the willful disregard of his own team mate. It wasn't an engine failure. It wasn't Hayden's mistake (like Rossi made at Assen). It wasn't even a non-Honda rider that took him out.



It's not just simple a "racing incident." It was a remarkably reckless move by a rider with, ultimately, little to gain. And I'm sure that Honda feels the same way. I just doubt that they'd take any action against Pedrosa other than behind closed doors.



And if Hayden's clutch problems were real (which seems to be the case since it's been confirmed by just about everyone), it's a pretty serious problem. Imagine trying to chase down those guys with a bad clutch while trying not to blow the thing completely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
From Crash.net (with apologies--read the whole thing there.)



"...Hayden falling at a crowded first corner, or suffering a mechanical failure, would have been plain bad luck and all a part of racing - but losing a world championship lead because of a team-mate's suicidal attack was plain stupidity and may cause Honda to review the wording of its 'no teams orders' rule. Certainly, it appears that Pedrosa will now have to help Hayden at Valencia..."



Julian Ryder had similiar, if not more damning, things to say.



Pedrosa can claim that he wasn't trying to pass him here, and perhaps he wasn't, but I doubt it. Regardless, there was no reason to even be that close where a small mistake could be disasterous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Re: Lack of Team orders is to blame.

Also Edwards stated before the race that he was going to protect Valetino and Rossi thanked him for the good job in his post-race remarks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Yes, you're right. Although, does it really have to be stated that under any circumstances--especially this one--you do not take out your team mate with such willful disregard? I guess so. If no team orders were to be given someone should have at least told Dani to chill a bit if Hayden got by him. Could it have been any worse?



Believe it or not, yes. Hayden could have been hurt and not able to ride at Valencia. As bad as Dani looks now, imagine had that been the case.



When asked for comment, the Big Chief at HRC said simply, "I have no words."



Well, there Big Chief, perhaps someone at HRC should have had some words for Pedrosa before this colossal eff-up was given a chance to occur.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
With a bad clutch.



Seriously, you could be right, but I don't know if you can put it all on Hayden. HRC has already admitted that they can't solve the problem. You want to chase Valentino down with a bad clutch?



All things being equal and strictly rider against rider, Rossi's going to win almost every time--against anyone. No argument there. But HRC seems to have a hand in this mess, too. They certainly haven't helped Hayden take advantage of Rossi's rare season of misfortune. Like I already said, it is a team sport.



With all of the problems Yamaha and Rossi have had to overcome while still winning the most races, Rossi is unquestionably deserving if it turns out in his favor. I think a lot of us just hate that something so stupid could have affected the outcome.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
It was a pretty aggressive move by Hayden. But I got the feeling that Hayden was shocked that he had to even pull a move like that given the circumstances. Dani was going balls out from the first lap and giving no quarter whatsoever and was aggressive in re-passing after Hayden had got by him for third the first time. Team orders or not, Dani should have chilled a bit the first time Hayden got by him. There was plenty of race left.



And it was a similar attempt to what Hayden accomplished, but it was totally botched; he didn't have the room and came in very hot at a crap angle (which, yes, caused him to lose the front on the curbing.)



Not saying that this is you, but any critisism of Hayden being overly aggressive should be directed back at those who've been whining that he's been riding too safely.







 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
The clutch issue is far more problematic than just starts. It's not drag racing. It's a 20-some-odd-lap race. A slipping clutch is equivalent to being down on horsepower, especially out of corner exits. They also use the clutch to control wheelies (remember that we're talking about a 340 lb. short-wheelbase bike with a high COG and 240+ horsepower) and to control the power. Then you've got to baby the thing to avoid having it go totally AWOL.



I was reluctant to attribute too much to the clutch problems, too. But it has become clear recently that this is a real problem and HRC has admitted it.



P.S. We all believe Rossi is the best. But it's not simply rider against rider. And it doesn't mean he should win all the time. If that were true, they'd just have a parade lap, hand him his trophy and everyone could go home early.



The point is that the Pedrosa/Hayden incident was not just a mere racing incident. It shouldn't have happened.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
I guess you don't watch much MotoGP or motorcycle racing.



Hayden's pass was preceded by Pedrosa repassing after Hayden had taken third position. Being that Pedrosa has a snowball's chance in hell of winning the championship and Hayden was leading, his duty is to back off his team mate, at least until there's a clearer opportunity, team orders or not.



The big difference between Hayden's pass and Pedrosa's attempt is that Hayden didn't crash. Pedrosa was in way too hot with no angle. He botched it but he never should have been that close.



It is already being hailed by most as the one of the dumbest things ever done on a racetrack, possibly the dumbest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Jiffy, I'm not going to sit here and argue that Hayden's clutch lost him the championship, but it certainly didn't help.



I don't think you understand how a clutch works and how it's used in roadracing. Starting is only the beginning of the problems. A slipping, overheated, glazed-over clutch is equivalent to losing horsepower and having a reliable, functioning one is helpful in controling wheelies and power to the wheel, among other things.



Besides, the only reason that anyone mentions the clutch problem is to counter the argument that "Rossi would have won it anyway if (engine failures, crash with Elias, crash at Assen, etc.)" Well, you could argue that if Hayden's bike had also worked well, he might have wrapped it up by now.



Okay, they've both had some problems (Rossi indeed had more). Fairplay and it is a team sport--the best rider doesn't always win. But this thing with Pedrosa has totally affected the whole process. And it shouldn't have happened.



And so what if Hayden lost his points lead? If Rossi and Hayden came into Valencia tied and Hayden won, he somehow wouldn't deserve it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Then...

...I think we would all be witness to possibly the most dramatic, unpredicitable and amazing GP season ever. And even if it doesn't happen, it's been pretty amazing anyway.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top