Motorcycle Pollution Standards Changed
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I will be glad when the entire U.S. shares the same pollution standards for motorcycles so we do not have to put up with the gouging of CA dealers and Californians' can buy motorcycles from out-of-state if we like.
I would like to be able to do the same with Porsche so I can tell some CA dealers to stick it up their a$$ (the "$$" is literal).
I would like to be able to do the same with Porsche so I can tell some CA dealers to stick it up their a$$ (the "$$" is literal).
What can dealers legally do to modify motorcycles? Are they obligated not to do anything that might increase emissions? Back in the early 90s, HD dealers routinely sold a new cam during the 500 mile service, along with rejetting the carb and fitting a lower-restriction (louder) exhaust system. Is that legal?
Joe Berk
www.joeberkphotography.com
Joe Berk
www.joeberkphotography.com
This will not be a huge difference for a couple of reasons. 1. Manufacturers already have to comply with California standards, and since California is such a huge market, they are well geared towards meeting those standards. 2. All manufacturers who want to sell in Europe must comply with the Euro 2 (I think that's its name) standard, which might be even more stringent than the California standards. 3. There is no follow up program, as there is for cars. If I modify a car radically, at smog text time (in CA) I get in trouble. For motorcycles, as someone already noticed, the only difference might be to increase the aftermarket sales.
As for the legality: you might notice that, for example, all stock mufflers have a little notice that it is illegal to use them in a bike that is not the one they are licensed for, and that it is illegal to modify the exhaust system, blah blah blah. It's like the "novelty" helmets, the brighter lightbulbs, the "competition" mufflers, etc.: manufacturers simply put a notice that, of course (wink, wink) these are not legal for street use, and that, of course!, they are not sold for anything like that....
As for the legality: you might notice that, for example, all stock mufflers have a little notice that it is illegal to use them in a bike that is not the one they are licensed for, and that it is illegal to modify the exhaust system, blah blah blah. It's like the "novelty" helmets, the brighter lightbulbs, the "competition" mufflers, etc.: manufacturers simply put a notice that, of course (wink, wink) these are not legal for street use, and that, of course!, they are not sold for anything like that....
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The EPA also said that motorcycles produce more harmful exhaust per mile than cars or large SUV's. The average SUV burns four times as much gas per mile than my motorcycle, it also burns four times as much oxygen and nitrogen. How can a motorcycle produce more harmful exhaust per mile?
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Uh, hold on.....
OK for the sake of the rest of this thread let me lay down what I know about emmission controls so we are somewhat on the same page.
Traditionally emmissions fall into 2 major categories: Hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen.
But since the mid '80s weve seen plenty, and I do mean plenty, of evidence that CO2 could do us a lot of hurt too, in the long run.
Hydrocarbons
Bikes dont have controls that assure complete combustion of fuel. Optimal combustion mixture for maximum power is slightly rich, meaning that the excess fuel is pumped into the atmosphere as partially combusted molecular hydrocarbon fragments. These things react with gasses in the atmosphere and the sun's rays to form smog
Hydrocarbons are controlled by careful mixture manipulation and by catalytic converters, which complete combustion on the surface of a honeycomb coated with special materials in the exhast pipe.
Oxides of Nitrogen
involving of nitrogen in the cumbustion process is unavoidable, it composes 70% of the atmosphere. N2 is the most comon form of atmospheric nitrogen and it's really stable, meaning it's really hard to oxidize. High combustion pressures and temperatures are enough to split N2 though, creating oxides of nitrogen NO2 and NO collectively known as NOx. NO2 is the real baddie. it reacts with the atmosphere to produce ozone (O3) which is a very reactive chemical that loves to oxidise just about anything, including say, lung tissue.
Lets not confuse this stuff with the O3 that is famously disappearing in the high atmosphere and is useful for shielding us all from UV rays which causes cancer and would sterilize the planet of all multicellular life if all the high atmosphere O3 goes away. No, the stuff we creater down here never makes it up there. It's highly reactive remember? the High altitude O3 has very little chance to react because the atmosphere is so thin.
Oxides also react to form nitric acid, which is a major contributor of acid rain, as well as toxic organic nitrates.
NOx can be limited by lowering combustion temperature, usually by admitting some spent exhaust gasses into the intake(EGR), not a great formula for maintaining max power. But EGR is usually only implemented during cruise modes so it is not noticed very much. It pisses me off when "Hot Rodders" disable their EGR thinking they are gaining a bunch of power. They don't but they do increase the chances that my kid will get asthma.
Now, a bike with no emmission controls, tuned for maximum power definately has the potential to release more of these pollutants than a car or truch with state of the art, or even last generation emmission controls.
Now, what Cheapskate could conclude using his line logic is that motorcycles are not going to release more CO2 which is directly related to how much fuel and air is used.
CO2 reduction is a *****, but the result is better fuel economy.
OK for the sake of the rest of this thread let me lay down what I know about emmission controls so we are somewhat on the same page.
Traditionally emmissions fall into 2 major categories: Hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen.
But since the mid '80s weve seen plenty, and I do mean plenty, of evidence that CO2 could do us a lot of hurt too, in the long run.
Hydrocarbons
Bikes dont have controls that assure complete combustion of fuel. Optimal combustion mixture for maximum power is slightly rich, meaning that the excess fuel is pumped into the atmosphere as partially combusted molecular hydrocarbon fragments. These things react with gasses in the atmosphere and the sun's rays to form smog
Hydrocarbons are controlled by careful mixture manipulation and by catalytic converters, which complete combustion on the surface of a honeycomb coated with special materials in the exhast pipe.
Oxides of Nitrogen
involving of nitrogen in the cumbustion process is unavoidable, it composes 70% of the atmosphere. N2 is the most comon form of atmospheric nitrogen and it's really stable, meaning it's really hard to oxidize. High combustion pressures and temperatures are enough to split N2 though, creating oxides of nitrogen NO2 and NO collectively known as NOx. NO2 is the real baddie. it reacts with the atmosphere to produce ozone (O3) which is a very reactive chemical that loves to oxidise just about anything, including say, lung tissue.
Lets not confuse this stuff with the O3 that is famously disappearing in the high atmosphere and is useful for shielding us all from UV rays which causes cancer and would sterilize the planet of all multicellular life if all the high atmosphere O3 goes away. No, the stuff we creater down here never makes it up there. It's highly reactive remember? the High altitude O3 has very little chance to react because the atmosphere is so thin.
Oxides also react to form nitric acid, which is a major contributor of acid rain, as well as toxic organic nitrates.
NOx can be limited by lowering combustion temperature, usually by admitting some spent exhaust gasses into the intake(EGR), not a great formula for maintaining max power. But EGR is usually only implemented during cruise modes so it is not noticed very much. It pisses me off when "Hot Rodders" disable their EGR thinking they are gaining a bunch of power. They don't but they do increase the chances that my kid will get asthma.
Now, a bike with no emmission controls, tuned for maximum power definately has the potential to release more of these pollutants than a car or truch with state of the art, or even last generation emmission controls.
Now, what Cheapskate could conclude using his line logic is that motorcycles are not going to release more CO2 which is directly related to how much fuel and air is used.
CO2 reduction is a *****, but the result is better fuel economy.
We'll maybe need catalytic converters. If Toyota can make Hybrid cars that get 60mpg and qualify for ulev and zelev in California then motorcycle manufacturers should be able to do it also. I'd ride a hybrid bike. I'd love to get 100+ mpg. Electric motors have full torque from the get go. At the least they could throw some money in that direction and see where it leads. Things will change and people will resist but that it is the nature of life. Resistance is futile.
I second that. Motorcycles with their low weight would make a great test bed for new hybrid drivetrains. So, companies like Honda and Toyota (with their buddies at Yamaha) could test a hybrid tech they dont think is quite ready for the car market in a super touring Burgman-type scooter that gets 150 miles to the gallon.
Modification of Exhaust Systems
27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified.
(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section. Motor vehicle exhaust systems or parts thereof include, but are not limited to, nonoriginal exhaust equipment.
Amended Sec. 10, Ch. 92, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002.
because according to the calif. vehicle code the noise limit for all motorcycles made after 1985 is 80dbA which means technically anyone with a modified exhaust that's louder is in violation of the law. let's hope they never catch on. 80dbA isn't as loud as 90% of the harleys nor a nice two bros setup...
more often than not this is used as a trump card if they want to harrass you or find a reason to pull you over. they're not going around just ticketing people for being loud because they've already busted all the drug dealers and murderers.
27151. (a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified.
(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section. Motor vehicle exhaust systems or parts thereof include, but are not limited to, nonoriginal exhaust equipment.
Amended Sec. 10, Ch. 92, Stats. 2001. Effective January 1, 2002.
because according to the calif. vehicle code the noise limit for all motorcycles made after 1985 is 80dbA which means technically anyone with a modified exhaust that's louder is in violation of the law. let's hope they never catch on. 80dbA isn't as loud as 90% of the harleys nor a nice two bros setup...
more often than not this is used as a trump card if they want to harrass you or find a reason to pull you over. they're not going around just ticketing people for being loud because they've already busted all the drug dealers and murderers.
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12 Posts
Hybrid bike
Interesting thought, but I think mass is the big factor here. Add 400 lbs to a car in batteries and motor, and it gets noticed, but not much. Add 200 lbs to a bike in batteries, motor, etc., and you have a bike that is a dog. Also, you'd need all the gear for regenerative braking, especially on the front wheel, where most of the braking is done. 20 lbs more unsprung weight on the front end is a killer.
Interesting thought, but I think mass is the big factor here. Add 400 lbs to a car in batteries and motor, and it gets noticed, but not much. Add 200 lbs to a bike in batteries, motor, etc., and you have a bike that is a dog. Also, you'd need all the gear for regenerative braking, especially on the front wheel, where most of the braking is done. 20 lbs more unsprung weight on the front end is a killer.
The idea that hybrid motorcycles are the answer is, at first glance, exciting and very interesting. However, technologically we are just not anywhere near that yet. The few technology demonstrators that I've ever seen had a max range of about 50 miles (1/2 hour) and were not hybrids, just electric. A fully hybrid bike would probably be the size of a Goldwing, having TWO motors (electric and conventional to recharge the batteries), plus stuck full of all kinds of electric batteries. This would, of course, also cause a few other problems, like let's say you get rear-ended by a cager, land in front of your bike, and the bike ends up on top of you while spilling battery liquids (who knows what's in there..) all over you. I mean, broken bones and a concussion are bad enough, but battery acid in your wounds??
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118 Posts
What state is that from?
I know some townships around here are talking about passing ordinances which ban 'loud' bikes. Like someone else posted, the only way to enforce things like this would be to do followup checks, perhaps when you get state inspection.
What about all these cars people put loud mufflers on nowadays?
I know some townships around here are talking about passing ordinances which ban 'loud' bikes. Like someone else posted, the only way to enforce things like this would be to do followup checks, perhaps when you get state inspection.
What about all these cars people put loud mufflers on nowadays?
Re: Hybrid bike
I would agree if I thought anywhere near 200 lbs would be added to a bike. My thinking is that hybrid cars such as the Prius (mine should be delivered next week) need only enough power in each component of the hybridized powertrain to give it the comparative zip of a normal car of similar size. With that being the case, a motorcycle hybrid only needs about 250cc engine coupled to a thin electric motor and only enough batteries as necessary. Include regenerative brakes and solar cells to trickle charge while parked and there you've got it. I've read that the regenerative brakes on the Prius actually keep the brake pads from actually making contact with the rotors except in emergency hard braking. A bike like this may not be for every biker, but then you name a bike that is. I for one would love to get on a bike and not think about gassing up for 5 or 6 hundred miles. That would make motorcycles a more pratical alternative for many more non-biker types. The new Prius doesn't even have a conventional transmission. It utilizes a planetary gear set that continually sends the power where it is need. Some to the wheels and some to the battery. My parents new 2004 Prius was picked up here in Omaha and driven 270 miles back to Iowa City, Iowa and got 60 mpg. Brand new car. My dad says that with over 300 miles on it he topped the tank off with only a little over 5 gallons. It has a bladder tank to eliminate any problem of condensation. Also a non-belted electric air conditioner. It's a marvel. A motorcycle should be easy to hybridize.
I would agree if I thought anywhere near 200 lbs would be added to a bike. My thinking is that hybrid cars such as the Prius (mine should be delivered next week) need only enough power in each component of the hybridized powertrain to give it the comparative zip of a normal car of similar size. With that being the case, a motorcycle hybrid only needs about 250cc engine coupled to a thin electric motor and only enough batteries as necessary. Include regenerative brakes and solar cells to trickle charge while parked and there you've got it. I've read that the regenerative brakes on the Prius actually keep the brake pads from actually making contact with the rotors except in emergency hard braking. A bike like this may not be for every biker, but then you name a bike that is. I for one would love to get on a bike and not think about gassing up for 5 or 6 hundred miles. That would make motorcycles a more pratical alternative for many more non-biker types. The new Prius doesn't even have a conventional transmission. It utilizes a planetary gear set that continually sends the power where it is need. Some to the wheels and some to the battery. My parents new 2004 Prius was picked up here in Omaha and driven 270 miles back to Iowa City, Iowa and got 60 mpg. Brand new car. My dad says that with over 300 miles on it he topped the tank off with only a little over 5 gallons. It has a bladder tank to eliminate any problem of condensation. Also a non-belted electric air conditioner. It's a marvel. A motorcycle should be easy to hybridize.
Hybridized bike
Before you start talking like the American car manufacturers about what or what not is possible you should take the time to read all you can about the technology underlying the 2004 Toyota Prius. You are so wrong about not being anywhere near the ability of hybridizing a motorcycle. It would be easy compared to a car in my estimation. The batteries on the Prius are completely insulated yet provide something like 500volts. You worry about acid yet you probably have no problem straddling 3 to 5 gallons of highly volatile, thereby explosive gasolene on your bike every time you ride.
Before you start talking like the American car manufacturers about what or what not is possible you should take the time to read all you can about the technology underlying the 2004 Toyota Prius. You are so wrong about not being anywhere near the ability of hybridizing a motorcycle. It would be easy compared to a car in my estimation. The batteries on the Prius are completely insulated yet provide something like 500volts. You worry about acid yet you probably have no problem straddling 3 to 5 gallons of highly volatile, thereby explosive gasolene on your bike every time you ride.
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