Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company
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After all, you can only ride one at a time.
For Southern Cal that doesn't sound too bad for motorcycle insurance, especially at 100/300.
I started riding in California (lived in Glendale and West LA for six years) so I'm familiar with the SoCal insurance markup--I mean market.
So 40 is the new 30....is that good? Seems like you can take that either way.....
For Southern Cal that doesn't sound too bad for motorcycle insurance, especially at 100/300.
I started riding in California (lived in Glendale and West LA for six years) so I'm familiar with the SoCal insurance markup--I mean market.
So 40 is the new 30....is that good? Seems like you can take that either way.....
Toward the top of this thread I briefly detailed my experience with street bikes owned and insurance, blah blah blah.
And a couple of people have written in and said, of course young inexperienced riders want sportbikes and big ones are sexier (size does matter after all).
But now another of my neurons fired.
I started out with a Kawi GPZ 305. Little teeny bike, cool looking (or at least I thought so at the time) and I took it to redline every single ride because it was so much fun to do.
My point being that small displacement bikes can a blast! Motorcycle manufacturers oughta be pushing this point hard and selling newbies on light, agile, easy-to-ride bikes.
I understand that small-displacement bikes have traditionally been a hard sell in the land of the Suburban and the 3500 square foot tract house (not to mention the Rune). The average American likes their stuff big. But there are some very cool 400's available in Europe and Japan.
Honda's 599 sort of counts as a good entry bike, or the evergreen SV650. But I just know that a 300 pound, entry-level Honda 399 or SV350 could be a boatload of fun and cheap cheap cheap to insure.
And a couple of people have written in and said, of course young inexperienced riders want sportbikes and big ones are sexier (size does matter after all).
But now another of my neurons fired.
I started out with a Kawi GPZ 305. Little teeny bike, cool looking (or at least I thought so at the time) and I took it to redline every single ride because it was so much fun to do.
My point being that small displacement bikes can a blast! Motorcycle manufacturers oughta be pushing this point hard and selling newbies on light, agile, easy-to-ride bikes.
I understand that small-displacement bikes have traditionally been a hard sell in the land of the Suburban and the 3500 square foot tract house (not to mention the Rune). The average American likes their stuff big. But there are some very cool 400's available in Europe and Japan.
Honda's 599 sort of counts as a good entry bike, or the evergreen SV650. But I just know that a 300 pound, entry-level Honda 399 or SV350 could be a boatload of fun and cheap cheap cheap to insure.
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Boys...
Nothing here is a condemnation of sport bikes themselves. It's a condemnation of the WAY sport bikes are ridden.
Notice this:
b) their ability to accelerate rapidly
Funny... weren't you all arguing that cruisers accelerate faster? Yet you quote a report that laments the acceleration of sport bikes?
Don't argue like Kpaul. You make us look bad.
Nothing here is a condemnation of sport bikes themselves. It's a condemnation of the WAY sport bikes are ridden.
Notice this:
b) their ability to accelerate rapidly
Funny... weren't you all arguing that cruisers accelerate faster? Yet you quote a report that laments the acceleration of sport bikes?
Don't argue like Kpaul. You make us look bad.
First, I never argued anything with anyone as far as cruisers or sportbikes. If you find otherwise, then show me. Second, all I did is copy what was in the insurance study about sport bikes. Some people argued they were safer. I think this shot a gigantic hole in that argument.
No, that's what KPaul thought I was arguing. He has a bad habit of reading half of someone's post and spouting off about what he thinks they are trying to say.
What I was actually arguing is that from town speeds at the rpm a rider would be cruising at, a cruiser would accelerate harder than a 600 sportbike. I never at any point argued that a cruiser would out-accelerate a sportbike under all conditions, at all rpms, or at all speeds, or that a cruiser would out-accelerate any sportbike larger than a 600 at town speeds at a cruising rpm.
What I was actually arguing is that from town speeds at the rpm a rider would be cruising at, a cruiser would accelerate harder than a 600 sportbike. I never at any point argued that a cruiser would out-accelerate a sportbike under all conditions, at all rpms, or at all speeds, or that a cruiser would out-accelerate any sportbike larger than a 600 at town speeds at a cruising rpm.
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I believe that the argument was that on the street peaky 600 sportbikes are likely to be ridden so far out of the powerband that crusiers should out accelerate them with immediate throttle response while the sportbiker is searching for the right gear.
That argument wouldn't apply to those stalwart and doughty he-men who ride liter class sportbikes like the venerable CBR1000F.
No one is condemning sportbikes anyhow. But when you are faced with The Compleat Idiot(tm) who claims that sportbikes are superior to everything in every way under all conditions I can see how it might appear that way. Plus, many of the arguments are simply vehicles to get The Resident Idiot's(tm) underwear in a wad.
That argument wouldn't apply to those stalwart and doughty he-men who ride liter class sportbikes like the venerable CBR1000F.
No one is condemning sportbikes anyhow. But when you are faced with The Compleat Idiot(tm) who claims that sportbikes are superior to everything in every way under all conditions I can see how it might appear that way. Plus, many of the arguments are simply vehicles to get The Resident Idiot's(tm) underwear in a wad.
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209 Posts
Insurance-sponsored studies, particularly ones presented to a public utilities rates-setting commission, should be digested with a helping of pepper to hide the foul, rotting taste of spoiled meat that goes along with the profiteering inherent in the insurance industry.
The conclusion that "sport bike rates should 89% higher" than other classes demonstrates pretty clearly what they are trying to do - utilize one correlated variable to set rates, and ignore other significant variables. This is an example of contorting statistics to meet the needs of the user, in this case a regulated entity seeking to raise rates. The insurance industry knows that by engaging in behavior like this, they can generate excess income and risk-free profit. They no doubt have, internally a more sophisticated multi-variable regression analysis that delineates exactly what variables are loosely correlated, which are strongly correlated, and which are not correlated and then have selected the ones that allow them to reasonably (to the unpracticed eye) present a case to raise rates the most with the least risk.
First of all, what is the definition of a "sport bike"? Is it defined by power-weight ratio, or average height of the unloaded Cg, or is it the presence of a certain cosmetic features etc.
Beyond that, I would guess (no data) that the single most important variable associated with insurance claims is rider experience versus type of bike (ignoring my definitional problem above). If you have 10 years riding sportbikes, your unlikely to start spontaneously crashing next year - but, if your experience is limited to sportbikes, and you begin riding a cruiser, the answer is likely different (although less different than if you have 0 years riding).
Oversimplification in specification is a classicly effective method to misuse stats.
cdg
The conclusion that "sport bike rates should 89% higher" than other classes demonstrates pretty clearly what they are trying to do - utilize one correlated variable to set rates, and ignore other significant variables. This is an example of contorting statistics to meet the needs of the user, in this case a regulated entity seeking to raise rates. The insurance industry knows that by engaging in behavior like this, they can generate excess income and risk-free profit. They no doubt have, internally a more sophisticated multi-variable regression analysis that delineates exactly what variables are loosely correlated, which are strongly correlated, and which are not correlated and then have selected the ones that allow them to reasonably (to the unpracticed eye) present a case to raise rates the most with the least risk.
First of all, what is the definition of a "sport bike"? Is it defined by power-weight ratio, or average height of the unloaded Cg, or is it the presence of a certain cosmetic features etc.
Beyond that, I would guess (no data) that the single most important variable associated with insurance claims is rider experience versus type of bike (ignoring my definitional problem above). If you have 10 years riding sportbikes, your unlikely to start spontaneously crashing next year - but, if your experience is limited to sportbikes, and you begin riding a cruiser, the answer is likely different (although less different than if you have 0 years riding).
Oversimplification in specification is a classicly effective method to misuse stats.
cdg
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I know, I don't know why everyone keeps dancing around the middle on this issue. It's like if we come out and admit that a 150hp 170mph sportbike is to much for the street then the boogie man insurance company is going to take our toys away.
Now everyone can wave the flag and climb up on their soap box and tell me I'm full of crap, but the writing is on the wall. Sportbikes are toast, when your insurance climbs 89% that GSXR-R1-RR is going to be an expensive lawn ornament.
Now everyone can wave the flag and climb up on their soap box and tell me I'm full of crap, but the writing is on the wall. Sportbikes are toast, when your insurance climbs 89% that GSXR-R1-RR is going to be an expensive lawn ornament.
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The industry may be forced to accept "voluntary limits" (a euphemism for a method of deflecting the threat of govt regulation).
This way you may see more bikes like the Rocket III. "Only 130 HP, officer." But with 150 ft-lbs of torque at 500 rpm. Heh heh.
This way you may see more bikes like the Rocket III. "Only 130 HP, officer." But with 150 ft-lbs of torque at 500 rpm. Heh heh.
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Electra-Gliders usually go the billet-n-chrome-loud-pipes route with a stuffed, leather vested "Biker Bear" (gack), Wingers take the cake for how much crap you can pile on, around and behind a vehicale and still delude yourself into thinking you're on a bike.
Both sets of rolling road blocks present their own problems, with the Harley groups you have to watch for oil slicks, parts falling off, hearing damage and the occasional drunk pseudo-bad ass behavior., With the GW crowd you also have to worry about improperly mounted parts or trailers coming adrift, stuffed toys, Bible- banging and the combined candle power of 15000 modulating accessory brakelights blinding you.
Best to avoid both groups if possible, or practice catch and release and get around them
Both sets of rolling road blocks present their own problems, with the Harley groups you have to watch for oil slicks, parts falling off, hearing damage and the occasional drunk pseudo-bad ass behavior., With the GW crowd you also have to worry about improperly mounted parts or trailers coming adrift, stuffed toys, Bible- banging and the combined candle power of 15000 modulating accessory brakelights blinding you.
Best to avoid both groups if possible, or practice catch and release and get around them
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What you're seeing here is the end of an era. Sportbikes will be legislated/insured into obscurity. I'm sure states are already looking at licensing restrictions for new riders, limiting them to 400cc's or less, like in the UK.
Good or bad, that's going to happen.
And what with the current system leaning towards socialism, will the Govt. tax sportbikes to pay for injuries sustained by the people who fall of 'em?
In the meantime, they can pry the Z1R out of my cold dead hands. Oops, I meant R1...
Good or bad, that's going to happen.
And what with the current system leaning towards socialism, will the Govt. tax sportbikes to pay for injuries sustained by the people who fall of 'em?
In the meantime, they can pry the Z1R out of my cold dead hands. Oops, I meant R1...
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