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The Toad
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17,461 Posts
Oh please it was a joke, I know you don't own a Harley,...
yet!
Okay. Enough fun. Tiger first. Then Ironhead. I'm looking at a 2007 Tiger Saturday.

As far as this racing BS goes I go back to the 60s. Remember "On Any Sunday"? Remember the amount of factory support that Mert Lawill got from HD? Virtually zero. While racing was poverty struck back then it was also a situation where any kid could dream and aspire to be a racer. All that changed with the advent of motorcycling popularity and the huge amounts of cash involved. Racing went from an enthusiast level to a factory level. Now one must get lots of sponsorship money to even think of competing. The bikes have become so sophisticated that most people are locked out. Even dirt racing is getting waaaay too expensive with the fragile new 4-strokes.

Along with the more expensive tech we also have the involvement of some of the world's larger corporations. Honda and Kawasaki, each dwarfs Suzuki and Yamaha as corporations and each of the 4 dwarfs HD which again Dwarfs Ducati. These companies now spend money unheard of in AMA racing of the mid 20th Century. They use their power to influence rule making in an attempt to cook the rules in their own favors. Who can compete with that? So, while yes individual racers are competent and so on it doesn't change the pernicious influence of the large wads of cash. AMA road racing has become more like a rich man's club. Factories intimidate the racing association for rule changes that favor them over privateers. It even reached a point where the supersport bikes all had the same bore and stroke. Today privateers have virtually no chance because for all the posturing the rules still allow vast advantages for the factories.

So, maybe the AMA doesn't distribute the Championships but we effectively had a situation where Kawasaki pursued Supersport. Suzuki mainly concentrated on Superbike. Honda and Yamaha expend more effort in MotoGP and so on. This provides virtually guaranteed Championships for each manufacturer's ad copy. Well, I think it sucks. Until effective action is taken to even the field some then the AMA can kiss my @ss. So can HondaYamhKawaZuki.

There are still local flat track races which blow AMA roadracing out of the water for excitement. Until the AMA fixes it, which I doubt they ever will, then AMA road racing for me is a big yawn. Anyhow that's the way I feel about it. I want to see regular talented people to be able to compete again. I doubt I ever will.
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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10,479 Posts
"Factories intimidate the racing association for rule changes that favor them over privateers. It even reached a point where the supersport bikes all had the same bore and stroke. Today privateers have virtually no chance because for all the posturing the rules still allow vast advantages for the factories."

Isn't that what Jordan complained about a couple years back? He said that no matter how much money he spent that the factory bikes are always better becuase they won't give him access to the same stuff they use.
 

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Registered
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4,129 Posts
jordan absolutely said that. most of last year's racing in superbike was close and fairly fun to watch when pace cars weren't on the track. it's not the bikes. it's the gomer's that run the series. if you look at racing history factory participation comes and goes in cycles. they'll be back when sales puck up again. around 2012 things will get back to normal with the factories.
 

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Premium Member
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3,994 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
Okay. Enough fun. Tiger first. Then Ironhead. I'm looking at a 2007 Tiger Saturday.

As far as this racing BS goes I go back to the 60s. Remember "On Any Sunday"? Remember the amount of factory support that Mert Lawill got from HD? Virtually zero. While racing was poverty struck back then it was also a situation where any kid could dream and aspire to be a racer. All that changed with the advent of motorcycling popularity and the huge amounts of cash involved. Racing went from an enthusiast level to a factory level. Now one must get lots of sponsorship money to even think of competing. The bikes have become so sophisticated that most people are locked out. Even dirt racing is getting waaaay too expensive with the fragile new 4-strokes.

Along with the more expensive tech we also have the involvement of some of the world's larger corporations. Honda and Kawasaki, each dwarfs Suzuki and Yamaha as corporations and each of the 4 dwarfs HD which again Dwarfs Ducati. These companies now spend money unheard of in AMA racing of the mid 20th Century. They use their power to influence rule making in an attempt to cook the rules in their own favors. Who can compete with that? So, while yes individual racers are competent and so on it doesn't change the pernicious influence of the large wads of cash. AMA road racing has become more like a rich man's club. Factories intimidate the racing association for rule changes that favor them over privateers. It even reached a point where the supersport bikes all had the same bore and stroke. Today privateers have virtually no chance because for all the posturing the rules still allow vast advantages for the factories.

So, maybe the AMA doesn't distribute the Championships but we effectively had a situation where Kawasaki pursued Supersport. Suzuki mainly concentrated on Superbike. Honda and Yamaha expend more effort in MotoGP and so on. This provides virtually guaranteed Championships for each manufacturer's ad copy. Well, I think it sucks. Until effective action is taken to even the field some then the AMA can kiss my @ss. So can HondaYamhKawaZuki.

There are still local flat track races which blow AMA roadracing out of the water for excitement. Until the AMA fixes it, which I doubt they ever will, then AMA road racing for me is a big yawn. Anyhow that's the way I feel about it. I want to see regular talented people to be able to compete again. I doubt I ever will.
For me unless you show me some serious proof, the only advantage the Factories have is just that,... " A Friggin Factory ". Thinking just because you have tons of money and are rich doesnt mean their going to sell you thier special parts, that outcome should be obvious to people such as MJ.( In this era )

From what Iv read, and experienced, I dont think the Factories get any advantage other than their many countless years of experience, know how, and knowledge, plus a factory full of parts milling machings and engineers. Imho thats the difference.

I'v been and still am good friends with one of the second tech's to examine every top three finisher in the AMA in 2001 and as far as real cheating thats provable, from the Factories- is minute and miniscule and most times never unveiled. The exception was two years ago (?) when everyones crank didn't measure up or was found illegal. (Rap,Hacking,Mladin).

I know what your speaking of in the 60's, everyone knows how it was, it was the hay-day of motorcycle racing, and thats over now. It will never come back. All we and yourself can do is watch "On Any Sunday" to re-live those times, as epic as they were.

If you havent taken notice riders have come through the ranks albeit harder then what your era afforded, they have made it into the lime light. Even with the odds against the US, the American riders have made a hugh impact- one which is undeniable. Its a harder road to travel no doubt- but that just makes the prize even more attractive.

Bottom line is I need proof to your accusations of lining pockets and bending rules other than "everyone waiting for Mladin to remount a new bike after some crash".
 

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The Toad
Joined
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17,461 Posts
For me unless you show me some serious proof, the only advantage the Factories have is just that,... " A Friggin Factory ". Thinking just because you have tons of money and are rich doesnt mean their going to sell you thier special parts, that outcome should be obvious to people such as MJ.( In this era )
I quit there. Big4 worship makes me nauseous.
 
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