[ArtOfTheMotorcycle]

Aftermarket Pipes & Other Mods

The anti-tampering language only means something if it's enforced. Virtually all aftermarket pipes, including those sold by Harley and Yamaha, are illegal already. The only exceptions are those that are roll-marked like original-equipment parts, with a certification that they do meet all EPA requirements. To make any of this stick, it has to be enforced at the state and local level. The EPA made the regs then got out of the enforcement business.

 

[das]

Re: Aftermarket Pipes & Other Mods

Agreed.

But I think the more alarming part is that the EPA even thinks in that manner.

Why should they care at all if a bike has fuel injection or carburators (sp?) or a factory versus aftermarket exhaust. If the bike meets the pollution requirements, it shouldn't make any difference whatsoever how it achieves that result.

What's the purpose of the regulations? To reduce pollution from vehicle emissions, or to reduce the appeal and accessibility of motorcycling to non-motorcyclists?

It's similar non-thinking over at the ATF that's killing hobby rocketry. And don't even get me started on sport shooting...

If this kind of thinking continues, before long the government will regulate us down to a state of complete vegatation. I don't recall who said it but... "The chief result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools."

 

[ArtOfTheMotorcycle]

Re: Aftermarket Pipes & Other Mods

"Emissions" means more than just air pollution. The EPA is also charged with regulating noise levels.

 

[starvingstudent]

"as well as "anti-tampering" regulations, which could prohibit certain modifications to motorcycles, such as installing certain aftermarket exhaust systems."



Go for it! I would LOVE it if I was no longer woken up at 4am by Harley straight pipes and Yoshimura race exhausts.

 

[das]

Re: Aftermarket Pipes & Other Mods

Pollution... air pollution, noise pollution, light pollution, water pollution; doesn't matter in this case.

I think you've missed my point... the EPA should be mandating acceptable pollution levels, not trying to regulate the construction or modification of motorcycles.

This is very bad for motorcyclists and the motorcycling industry because it makes motorcycling less appealing and/or less accessible to potential motorcyclists.

 

[das]

You need to read (or re-read) the first post.



The obnoxiously loud exhausts are already illegal. If the existing laws were followed and enforced, additional, stricter legislation would be unnecessary.

 

[13630]

Exactly. Well said das. The loud exhausts on these bikes are already illegal, so the additional laws will not do anything to decrease this unless they are enforced, which is not the case with the laws already on the books.

Furthermore, I think it is ludicrous that the EPA should require streetbikes to have fuel injection, catalytic converters, or other emissions-related equipment on them if it is not needed. All this will do is drive up the cost of new bikes by requiring manufacturers to include unneeded parts on their bikes.

Hopefully the EPA will get their head out of their ass and start focusing on some legislation that will actually make a difference with respect to emissions, such as tractor/trailer emissions ( the emissions from one of these is probably equal to fifty motorcycles) or other large vehicles like buses. Or, better yet, stop messing with American citizens and focus on lobbying other countries to do something about their emissions.

 

[desertbilly]

Sound restraints aren't enforcible

because they're too vague. How many decibals are allowed? From what distance? From what direction? At what RPM? Who measures? With what equipment? Think any cop or judge is going to waste their scarce time?

Prohibiting aftermarket exhaust systems, unless they're somehow certified, is actually enforcible. Allowable emissions is one way, but requires a very large infratructure to test. Simply requiring exhaust systems to be DOT certified (like tires and helmets) would actually work. The DOT would have to develop and apply the certification process.

At the point it's a very simple ordinance to enforce. Any bike manufactured after 200x must have a DOT stamped muffler or it's a fine. Any new muffler must be DOT stamped or it can't be sold, or it's a fine. Old bikes would be grandfathered, but will slowly die out over 20 to 30 years.

 

[starvingstudent]

Well, if you can get a bike WITHOUT a catalytic converter or fuel-injection to be as clean as an R1150R, that's great. But I don't think it's possible--even MO made this point on one of their first reviews of the R1100R.



As for the "stop messing with American citizens and focus on...other countries"--very flawed reasoning. Say you are raising a child, and they shoplift a few CDs. You say "stealing is wrong," and they say, "well I'll quit stealing CDs once other people in the world quit stealing cars." Is the kid right? No! Because stealing is still wrong. So is polluting. And lobbying other countries about their pollution does NOT have to be mutually exclusive with trimming American pollution.

 

[Razmann]

Face it folks, can't you see it coming? All these regs will limit higher and higher performing bikes, sportbike, cruiser, or whatever. There will come a day when "classics" (easy-to-work-on carberated) bikes will be the ones to own, not all this new hyper-technological stuff getting ready to bust the door down now. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the latest bikes (like the Aprilia Futura) but many backyard mech's like me won't be able to fix them!!



Take the new VFR: how do you perform a valve adjustment on that without screwing something up? Will my local shop mechanic be able to tackle it, or even be willing? Or will I have to pay through my catalytic converter (knowhatimean) to have the Honda stealer do it at $74 per hour? I've owned a '97 VFR, and the labor was already unreal because of the V-style engine. I loved that bike, makes me want to get another '94-'97, upgrade the shocks and brakes, add a turbo, and then hang with the Hyabusas; at least I'd have the flexibility to do that.

 

[starvingstudent]

90+% of riders already have their mechanic do valve adjustments. Adding a cat to the deal changes nothing--BMW riders have been cat-equipped and happy for years.



And actually, I suspect that these regulations will limit classic bikes much more than modern bikes--after all, which has cleaner emissions, a stock R1100S or stock Harley Sportster?

 

[reinerka]

The idea is good, however the question how to enforce some of those things remains a big question mark.



I would not like to see enforcement of specific systems, but rather values that must be met by manufacturers (stock or aftermarket). Initially this would most likely mean FI and Catalytic converters, but in the long run, maybe something better comes up and it would still be ok.



BMW has all those things for years and not a single problem doing so. Forcing others to follow is not a bad idea. As to performance, I doubt it would make such a big difference.



As well I would like to see those load pipes be history, since I never like it when somebody passes by sounding like an F16. What´s the point. I didn´t hear him any sooner than anyone else. It´s just not right to the majority and that is what should be protected.



But I still doubt they have thought anything about how to enforce the regulation. It´s like you have to have insurance but noone really cares. Other countries do a much better job there.

 

[Shadowspawn]

Clue in.

Right, since the last figures I have seen say that we Americans are responsible for 25% of the global CO2 emissions, obviously air polution is the fault of the entire rest of the globe who are responsible for the other 75% right? I don't have a problem with you thinking the EPA should back off, since as a percentage of total emissions, bikes are probably really good, and if compared to a car on a emission per passenger mile, we are probably kicking everyone else butt. However to point a figure at the rest of the globe is silly. I doubt the 40+ days Houston had in violation of Ozone regs. was because of europe.

 

[Shadowspawn]

Nah, it's called grandfathering

It is very rare that a vehical that has already been produced and purchased has to meet the new regulations release. For example, my 1974 VW does not have to meet any emissions requirements. Basically the classics will have a free pass, and anything made after the regulation takes effect will be screwed. Bet there will be a bit of a run on the bikes made right before the regs take effect. I know it my push my next purchase date foward....

 

[Nepenthe]

Re: Aftermarket Pipes & Other Mods

I was under the impression that some of the 'anti-tampering' came in the form of engine parts which are sealed and can only be accessed by a certified/dealer mechanic--like carbs which only the dealer can open because of the bolts or something which disables the engine if any 'tampering' is done.

So when do we get to vote for EPA officials?

 

[Nepenthe]

Re: Clue in.

No, bikes aren't 'kicking everyone else's butt' in emissions. Yes, as a percentage of total emissions, bikes represent a small slice of the smog pie--they also represent a small precentage of total vehicles on the road. But a bike itself isn't particularly clean.

As far as the rest of the world goes, ever heard of the Kyoto Agreement? It was brought before Congress in 1997 by Clinton, voted down 95 to nothing... Bush reaffirmed our refusal to accede to the wishes of the UN, which much of Europe and other nations again took as a slap in the face. So it's the civilized world which is going to be putting pressure on the US in the coming years...

 

[boxjoint]

So much for the cheap do it all bike ehh! With fuel injection and catalyitic converters you won't be able to touch ANYTHING for under $7000.00, unless it's a Ninja 250. Imagine the costs of re-engineering all of those bikes that these companies put out.

 

[aminalmutha]

Screw the EPA!!! They're going after the wrong 'problem'. Just look at their whole logic. A ULEV car produces very, very low emissions. Supposedly, a ULEV driving in LA expells cleaner air than it inhales. And they want to mandate so called ZEV's (ie. electric cars). Think about where a lot of electricity comes from. Coal. Natural gas. Oil. And what about all the toxins that you're carrying around in an EV? What happens when you get T-boned and a thousand pounds of battery acid are all over the ground? Gasoline evaporates quite easily. Not real enviro-friendly, but certainly not as nasty as battery acid. The point is, the EPA is targeting the driving (and riding) public when it's really probably not the major problem. Plus, pollution is generally better than it used to be. Factories can actually buy 'pollution credits' based on how many cars they crush so they don't have to follow as stringent pollution standards. I don't know if that program is still in use or not. What about factory pollution? Agricultural? Etc, etc. You just can't stop all air pollution. Hell, LA basin was supposedly smoggy when the first white dudes saw the place. The EPA would love to see the average car cost $50K and the average bike be half that, while gas would cost $5/gallon. I'm sure they'd be perfectly happy seeing nobody drive at all. Let's all live in super dense cities riding our bicycles around, living off solar power and simulated cheese product. We don't really need to be able to roam the country freely, do we? Oh, and noise pollution. Maybe the neighbor's dog needs a muffler. EPA, SPCA, and PETA approved, of course. What about big rigs and their Jake brakes? Hell, big rigs' tires are louder than a passing bike. How 'bout thunder? Or if you live by a beach, the waves? All those things are pretty loud, ya know. The point of this rant is that this is pointless legislation that will do no one any good. It won't help air or noise pollution, will only drive up costs, and generally make life more difficult for everyone. We have to fight these bastards. This is a perfect example of giving an inch and taking a mile. Don't budge!

 

[johnz]

Great.



But a Chevy Suburban can pour out pollution becuase 'light trucks' have much less stringent EPA controls.

 

[cbusa]

That's the first post I've seen that had absolutely no facts in it.