I'd like to see everyone start ignoring what the government has to say about our safety, and call their congressmen and women and urge them to shut down the NHTSA immediately.
NHTSA Live Chat Regarding Motorcycle Safety
I don't know anything about equestrian sports but having worked in the ski industry for a dozen years or so I can vouch for the fact that skiing is a sport that involves considerable risk of injury. I don't know if it involves the same risk of death as motorcycling (that seems a little unlikely) but a comparison on a per capita basis would sure be interesting.
If there were ever a sport that attracts even more posers than motorcycling it's gotta be downhill skiing (and now, alas, backcountry as well since it's become gauche to ski off piste). The difference is the cost of entry into the sport which is much lower. At least motorcyclists, for the most part, have to be able to afford a bike. Any goomba can rent or own skis for a relatively small amount of coin so the slopes are generally crowded with low-skilled yahoos.
sbp
If there were ever a sport that attracts even more posers than motorcycling it's gotta be downhill skiing (and now, alas, backcountry as well since it's become gauche to ski off piste). The difference is the cost of entry into the sport which is much lower. At least motorcyclists, for the most part, have to be able to afford a bike. Any goomba can rent or own skis for a relatively small amount of coin so the slopes are generally crowded with low-skilled yahoos.
sbp
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
This comes from the National Skiing Area Association:
Skiing/snowboarding
2002 number of fatalities* 37
Number of participants (in millions)** 13
Fatalities per million participants 2.85
Days of participation (in millions)* 57.6
Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) .64
Recreational Scuba Diving (most recent figure available - 2000)
2000 number of fatalities**** 91
Number of participants (in millions)** ___
Fatalities per million participants ___
Days of participation (in millions)** ___
Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) ___
Swimming
2002 number of fatalities*** 2,000 (Drowning: Includes drownings of person swimming or playing in water, or falling into water, except on home premises or at work. Excludes drownings involving boats, which are in water transportation)
2001 Number of participants (in millions)** 54.7
Fatalities per million participants 36.6
Days of participation (in millions)** 2321.2
Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) .86
Bicycling (resulting from collisions with motor vehicles-additional bicycling-related deaths, such as collisions with other bicyclists in 1998 was 120.)
2002 number of fatalities*** 700
Number of participants (in millions)** 41.4
Fatalities per million participants 16.9
Days of participation (in millions)** 2,181.8
By days of participation rate (per million) .32
Skiing/snowboarding
2002 number of fatalities* 37
Number of participants (in millions)** 13
Fatalities per million participants 2.85
Days of participation (in millions)* 57.6
Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) .64
Recreational Scuba Diving (most recent figure available - 2000)
2000 number of fatalities**** 91
Number of participants (in millions)** ___
Fatalities per million participants ___
Days of participation (in millions)** ___
Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) ___
Swimming
2002 number of fatalities*** 2,000 (Drowning: Includes drownings of person swimming or playing in water, or falling into water, except on home premises or at work. Excludes drownings involving boats, which are in water transportation)
2001 Number of participants (in millions)** 54.7
Fatalities per million participants 36.6
Days of participation (in millions)** 2321.2
Fatalities per days of participation rate (per million) .86
Bicycling (resulting from collisions with motor vehicles-additional bicycling-related deaths, such as collisions with other bicyclists in 1998 was 120.)
2002 number of fatalities*** 700
Number of participants (in millions)** 41.4
Fatalities per million participants 16.9
Days of participation (in millions)** 2,181.8
By days of participation rate (per million) .32
The Washington Post wants me to register to read the article. No thanks, even though it's free.
The yuppies discovered cross country skiing up there in Idaho too? Don't you love they way they ruin every decent recreational activity you can name? I've still not gotten over the stinking granola crunching bicyclists ruining Moab.
What? And lose all the wonderful things that the Feds have done to make us safe? Like child killing airbags?
How about the fact that cars are safer because of vastly improved suspensions and braking (try driving one of those vaunted 60's-70's muscle cars if you don't think so). The govt ordered that, right? You mean that the govt didn't mandate that? I'm shocked. They are always on the forefront of technology!
If left to the govt we'd still be using ox driven wooden plows. Heck, if the luddite envirowackos get their way we will again.
How about the fact that cars are safer because of vastly improved suspensions and braking (try driving one of those vaunted 60's-70's muscle cars if you don't think so). The govt ordered that, right? You mean that the govt didn't mandate that? I'm shocked. They are always on the forefront of technology!
If left to the govt we'd still be using ox driven wooden plows. Heck, if the luddite envirowackos get their way we will again.
Helluva thing, ain't it. We live in a part of the world where the outdoors are almost completely uncrowded and people still find a way to muck things up. Selfishness, stupidity, and massive arrogance abound on both sides of almost every wilderness issue around here and almost no need for any of it. I'd probably ***** me off if it didn't make me so depressed first.
you mean back country?
not sure what cross-country skiing ruins, but I'm just a granola crunching yuppie.
not sure what cross-country skiing ruins, but I'm just a granola crunching yuppie.
It's simply that places we used to go cross country skiing on in the Wasatch have been turned into fee areas thanks to the yuppies. It's upsetting to see once free areas be taken over by intersts that suddenly want to charge you for the privelege of doing what you've already been doing.
It's not like anyone has to pay for the snowfall.
Anyhow I enjoy a nice bowl of granola as much as anyone.
Progress, I guess.
It's not like anyone has to pay for the snowfall.
Anyhow I enjoy a nice bowl of granola as much as anyone.
Progress, I guess.
Three minor injuries have come from snowboarding. Two fractured ribs and one serious whallop to the head. I went straight to the ski shop after the head whallop, bought a helmet, haven't taken it off since. Countless palm size bruises up and down the body but they don't count.
I've had one from a motorcycle. Stretched the tendon in my right should out about and inch. That really sucked. They take forever to heal (come to think of it so do ribs.)
I tell you this though. I'll take a 1000 snowboard wipeouts to one motorcycle wipeout. You may fall down more and get more minor injuries but that one on the bike has real potential of being a doozy that the vast majority of people will never experience in a lifetime of skiing/snowboarding.
I've had one from a motorcycle. Stretched the tendon in my right should out about and inch. That really sucked. They take forever to heal (come to think of it so do ribs.)
I tell you this though. I'll take a 1000 snowboard wipeouts to one motorcycle wipeout. You may fall down more and get more minor injuries but that one on the bike has real potential of being a doozy that the vast majority of people will never experience in a lifetime of skiing/snowboarding.
A phrase that was mentioned at least twice in the article: "We do not have the data on that."
Does that disturb anyone but me? Why doesn't the government have the proper data to make sweeping generalizations and critical decisionss about our sport?
Does that disturb anyone but me? Why doesn't the government have the proper data to make sweeping generalizations and critical decisionss about our sport?
Heh heh. When did the govt ever let lack of data (or having completely false data) stop it from acting?
I think a lot of you guys (and gals) are
getting your panties in a bunch over nothing. I think your "fears" of the NHTSA screwing us over one more time are relatively unfound. If we spent just a few minutes with our congressman, got organized, worked with our state representatives, I think we could all serve our fellow riders (and ourselves) much better than spending time over idiotic banter and arguing over pretty much nothing.
Here's one idea: When I went through the mandatory driver "education" classes to get my (car) driving license, I had to sit for 6 hours and listen to them whine and cry about drunk driving. Well, great and good. How about they spend just 20 minutes talking about "unprotected" other members of the road community, like pedestrians and motorcyclists? I don't know how many times I have seen a car driver cut through crosswalks with people on the street and ignore motorcyclists. Just this summer alone in my city there's been four fatal motorcycle accidents, and at least three of them were 100% the cager's fault. How about we get those young new drivers involved in some common sense driving for a change? If they are willing to spend $2,000 on a new stereo, bling bling wheels, and loud exhaust system they should not mind spending 20 minutes learning about the rules of the road. The driver's exams are a joke! I could pass it with just a minor glimpse at the "education booklet" provided by the DMV. How about they give you some REAL questions other than what the BAC should be for you to be able to drive?? How about they ask things like: Who has the right of way in a crosswalk? Or Motorcyclists are best passed on which side?
My area is getting worse every year, I can't keep riding like this and grow old at the same time. Every year me and my riding buddies have more and more "near misses" stories to tell each other, and I don't see it getting any better, just worse.
getting your panties in a bunch over nothing. I think your "fears" of the NHTSA screwing us over one more time are relatively unfound. If we spent just a few minutes with our congressman, got organized, worked with our state representatives, I think we could all serve our fellow riders (and ourselves) much better than spending time over idiotic banter and arguing over pretty much nothing.
Here's one idea: When I went through the mandatory driver "education" classes to get my (car) driving license, I had to sit for 6 hours and listen to them whine and cry about drunk driving. Well, great and good. How about they spend just 20 minutes talking about "unprotected" other members of the road community, like pedestrians and motorcyclists? I don't know how many times I have seen a car driver cut through crosswalks with people on the street and ignore motorcyclists. Just this summer alone in my city there's been four fatal motorcycle accidents, and at least three of them were 100% the cager's fault. How about we get those young new drivers involved in some common sense driving for a change? If they are willing to spend $2,000 on a new stereo, bling bling wheels, and loud exhaust system they should not mind spending 20 minutes learning about the rules of the road. The driver's exams are a joke! I could pass it with just a minor glimpse at the "education booklet" provided by the DMV. How about they give you some REAL questions other than what the BAC should be for you to be able to drive?? How about they ask things like: Who has the right of way in a crosswalk? Or Motorcyclists are best passed on which side?
My area is getting worse every year, I can't keep riding like this and grow old at the same time. Every year me and my riding buddies have more and more "near misses" stories to tell each other, and I don't see it getting any better, just worse.
Re: I think a lot of you guys (and gals) are
I don't know where you live but I live in geriatirc central. I think that Pa is the only state that doesn't require the dead to turn in their driver's license. Far as bureaucrats go, most of them are just worried about producing enough paper work to justify their existance.
What drives me nuts is that while riders will move heaven and earth, and scream from the rafter about helmet laws but when it comes to more rational legislation, they're nowhere to be found. Set up an organization to ban pink Harleys and you'll probably have to fight 'em off.
If the AMA was worth the powder to blow them up, maybe we'd be in the same ballpark as the AARP. God! Hit a geezer with a bike and just see what happens to ya. Geezer hits a rider, and it's all: You can't disscreminate agaist the elderly, and motorcycles are unsafe in the first place, or Look at this poor old citizen and how they've worked all their life, so they can own a car the size of post war ranch home, when they can't even see the end of the hood.
I don't know where you live but I live in geriatirc central. I think that Pa is the only state that doesn't require the dead to turn in their driver's license. Far as bureaucrats go, most of them are just worried about producing enough paper work to justify their existance.
What drives me nuts is that while riders will move heaven and earth, and scream from the rafter about helmet laws but when it comes to more rational legislation, they're nowhere to be found. Set up an organization to ban pink Harleys and you'll probably have to fight 'em off.
If the AMA was worth the powder to blow them up, maybe we'd be in the same ballpark as the AARP. God! Hit a geezer with a bike and just see what happens to ya. Geezer hits a rider, and it's all: You can't disscreminate agaist the elderly, and motorcycles are unsafe in the first place, or Look at this poor old citizen and how they've worked all their life, so they can own a car the size of post war ranch home, when they can't even see the end of the hood.
I guess we all could use more fiber. But I'll probably have to start printing off MO for reading material.
Being able to afford a motorcycle does not exclude you from being a low skilled yahoo.
Yeah, but it probably means that there are less of them.
What is everyone going psycho about? If you honestly feel that motorcycles are going to be banned in the near or distant future, then waste your time calling and writing your congressman who couldn't give a rats ass either way about motorcycles as long as you vote for him/her. They will be happy to have a staffer write you a nice letter back about how much they care about your concerns. Neither does the NHTSA or they would have done a safety study a decade ago. I don't think anyone here gets it - NO ONE CARES ABOUT BIKES EXCEPT BIKERS AND WE'RE A BIG MINORITY. We're so tiny nobody even really cares enough to infringe upon our rights. As for helmets, that's states who decide and the trend is clearly the REPEAL of mandatory helmet laws. So what the hell is everyone going nuts about? Pissed off 'cause you can't buy a bike that goes over 180 mph stock off the showroom floor? You think the motorcycle companies (especially Harley and the Big Four) don't have massive lobbying efforts on a continuous basis to make motorcycles more available, easier to sell. and easier for untrained idiots to buy. Motorcycles will be banned about the same time abortions, guns, and prayer are banned. I say that 'cause I'm sure some believe these are at risk too. La-la land. 20 years from now you'll be able to ride your girlfriend on the back of your 200 hp bike to the neighborhood abortion clinic, with your trusty Uzi strapped to your bike gun rack, and make it to church by noon on Sunday. Anyone notice all these HOT issues haven't changed in 30 years despite all the screaming?
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