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Re: Helmet Laws Bite!

The bill didn't say you can ride a motorcycle, it said that certain people need to wear helmets when riding. Kind of like how we have to wear seat belts during take off and landing, listen to the same speech at the beginning of every flight.

Go visit a grand father in a hospital, with his head stitched up like a baseball, who can't remember who are, because he fell off a old honda 175 at less than 25mph when a car driver wasn't paying attention.

Then watch that same grandfather get dimensa years later and slowly deteriorate due to scar tissue on his brain causing strokes. And watch you grandmother spend 10+ years taking care of her vegetable husband, which was a 24/7 job. Watch them have to sell their Florida retirement home and RV. A long with a very large chunk of their retirement savings to pay medical bills.

 

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Why does the government have the right to make us get driver's licenses? I mean this is a free country right? Why can the government make us do anything? Or you can look at it this way: If you loan your car, or anything for that matter, to someone else it is still yours and if you say don't smoke in my car that person has an obligation to not smoke in your car. A gainfully employed person has to pay for the opportunity to work in this country, it's called income tax. The government uses this money for many things, one of which is to build roads. Since they are the government's roads they get to decide how the citizens using them can use them, speed limits, vehicle inspections, seat belt, etc. If you don't like the rules then don't use the road. Ride your bike how ever you want to on your own land.

 

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Re: Helmet Laws Bite!

Smart ass its a typo and since this site isn't called ladders online people of Forest Gump levels of intelligence or higher could probably figure it out. Yes look at Christopher Reeves, fell of a horse at much slower speeds than a motorcycle can travel, wearing a helmet, and landing on soft earth (as compared to asphalt or concrete!) I guess we should stop trying to make your life safe, so we won't try to get stricter laws for car drivers that "accidently" run down motorcyclists because they "didn't see you" because I mean you don't need anyone looking out for your safety.

 

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If you don't think income taxes are a good idea then we do you live here? Seriously why? Secondly, elected officials make laws so if you're in the minority T.S. Let see what else, oh yea you and the "freedom to buy a house in the suburbs, the govenment didn't force you to buy that house, but it is letting you use the land that it's on. I'll meet you at Barnes and Nobles and together we'll find in the Constitution were it says citizens of this country we have the "right" to ride motorcycles. You are damn right about the Constitiution not saying anything about medical bills. I agree with you 100%. So does the government providing even a minimum of health care make this a better or worse nation. And before you start in on welfare moms and junkies, etc we're talking about helmets, this is a motorcycle site. You can cram the comrade *****, I love my country for the rights and PRIVLEDGES that I enjoy, but anarchist out there here the expression "free country" and think they should be able to do whatever they want. Oh and if you have a problem with taxes why are you opposed to a law that could lower them. You don't really think the state Pennsylvania is really going to hire more cops to enforce helmet laws do you?

This law is similar to the helmet laws in TX. Basically, it just means you need to have a t least some minimum experience riding before you can ride a bike w/o a helmet. Before I started riding a would have agreed with you about helmet laws being unjust, but after a few years of riding experience I think that Joe Public riding a street bike it is in the real world, Not the theoretical we debate on this site, it is a good idea.

 

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I get tired of hearing people like you who came seem to grasp the idea that a country has to have laws and regulations. Period, there is no way around. You are making a generalization about my belief based on my ideas on a helmet law. If you really think wearing or not wearing a helmet, or law that makes a select few riders have to for awhile, is larger view of expressing freedom read some history. The colonists fought and didn't for freedom of religion and speech, essentially (yes I know there were more, but those were the two main ones). Okay no smart ass retort, all seriousness, where do you draw the line, no speed limits, no limits on the amount of alcohol you can drink before you drive. You really think that I should be able to ride 100mph on one wheel through a school zone. Yes these are extreme examples, but not near as much as your's previously stated. And I'm not emotional about this as you and others have pointed, I'm pointing out consequences of someone not wearing a helmet, because some of you don't seem see how this legislation affects the public in general, which is what the government has to, only ahout how it affects you or a small minority like you. I say this without any personal attack, but to me that seems to be a narrow view a freedom.

 

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Okay I wrote this really long retort and then I got disconnected, damn dial up! Here's the gist: Let's stick to this particular helmet law, as I have said in other posts, not because I feel like I'm being out debated, but because We are getting off track. This legislation is for young riders (under 21) and new to the sport/hobby riders. This people probably don't have an appreciation for for how quickly and how badly that can get hurt on a street bike. Saying hey you need to wear at least a minimum amount of protection is a good idea. We can debate the meaning of what freedom in America is, but this law isn't tyrannical, oppressive, or unjust.

 

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I thought that I pointed out earlier that not wearing a helmet can affect others, directly and in directly. There should only be laws that protect people from getting killed. So what Eron execs didn't was okay. We don't need laws for fraud and other non-lethal crimes?

 

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If you don't like pay income tax find or start a country that doesn't have it. You don't have to work here, but if you chose to you have to pay taxes. These taxes are allocated by ELECTED officials. Sorry this country is too big with too many different opinions for you to get decide where your individual extorted taxes go to. If you have a better way for 300,000,000 people to be completely free, but protected from tyranny and oppression (which having to wear a helmet is neither, just maybe uncomfortable), and not have to pay taxes, man then you have my vote for supreme chancellor and I definately want to live. But this is the real world where people take advantage of loop-holes (and it's not all corrupt politicians and laywes, it is plenty of everyday Joes), and people who either cannot see or don't care how their actions might affect others. Because of these people and those who felt cheated and wanted to to get back at a person, company, or the government, maybe in just somelittle almost insignificant way (like a kids who once shoplifted some baseball cards from a large store because he didn't have the money), this is ultimately why this country is the way it is. If no one ever stole or murdered, we wouldn't have laws against these things would we?

 

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Hurt feelings I'm talking about people losing money property, or being hurt through no fault of their own.

 

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Who pays if you crash and not only can't work but are a vegetable because you're brain got scrambled? Have you ever ridden a track day? Do you can on one of your long oraties when they tell you that you and everyone riding has to wear protective gear.

 

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I've comprehended everything you and longride have said but apparently you are think you opinions and beliefs can only be the right one. If you wreck and can't work someone other than you pays. If you are hurt bad enough someone else has to take care of might be someone who has never ridden a motorcycle and thinks that they are too dangerous. Do I think the government should take away our riding privileges, nope, should the government, in this case PA state legislature pass a law that means some people who a probably new to the sport have to take a little extra precautions along with the few people that are experienced streetriders that fit into this group because it is far too unrealistic to take every individual rider on a case by case basis, yep. Am I going to write any politicians one way or the other, nope, it's really not a big enough deal to me either way. Would I write if they tried to make motorcycles illegal, like they did with three wheelers years back, or tried to instituted hp restriction like they have in France, hell yes I would. Do I pick my battles and not make a ruckus over every little thing, yes, why, so when I do speak up and have something that I truely feel is important to say I am much more likely to be heard because the other person isn't worn out from all of my whining.

 

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No you just think I'm grasping at straws because I disagree with you. You just used my line of reasoning, you don't own the roads, you don't have a right to use the road. Drivers education 1st day "driving is privilege not a right". Yes getting out of bed in the morning is a dangerous activity, some people die in their sleep, and no these activities should not be outlawed. Okay it's a gorgeous day outside, I'm having the same conversation with like 3-4 different people who either just like to argue or really think a helmet law is just another example of the man trying to keep them down, probably a little of both. All of you go on as if your opinion is RIGHT one and if someone has a different one not noly are they wrong they obviously have an inferior intellect or something. This issue that doesn't truely have a concrete right or wrong answer. Why don't you just admit you don't like living in a country where not only people are entitled to not think like you but sometimes they get laws passed that you don't like. This isn't directed at you alone longride, it's to the other couple of people I've been arguing with also. Someone called me comrade, someone suggested I leave this country because I support this particular helmet law, when people get this fanatical over little stuff it's never going to have a good outcome. This is getting to point if I said that at least wearing a helmet meant you could have a open casket funeral, I get 10 people giving my all of the weird exceptions to this and the ones that are a little smarter or maybe just a little more of a smart ass would say that it doesn't matter because they are going to be cremated.

 

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Well yea, his head bounced off pavement, he didn't have any internal injuries, or brocken bones. This is a rhetoical question, you don't think helmets help prevent head trauma.

 

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You mean we went through all of this and we agree. You miss understood what I was saying. I was citing my grandfather's accident as evidence (not proof, I'm a science teacher so I know better!) that helmet do increase the chances living through an accident. This was NOT to imply everyone should have to wear a helmet all of the time. We get to busy trying to one up each other we lose sight. My grandmother swears to this day that was the only time she can remember my grandfather riding w/o a helmet. His actions did have consquences that went beyond himself. He knew better, and if he were alive and saw me riding w/o a helmet he'd kick my butt! He was however old enough, experienced enough to make that decision on his own. I wrecked my first motorcycle the first month I had it. I aced my MSF course, I practice in parking lots, was only going 45 around that decreasing radius turn, it became a choice between lay the bike down or risk going over a guardrail with about 20 foot drop. I totalled my bike, had some road rash, (wearing shorts and Tennis shoes), and took a chunk out of my foot. Head bounced off one of the posts too. I was twenty three, trained, and not being stupid on a ex 500. What stuck with was one how out of control I was during the actually crash and slide (For a gymnast who is used to having my body flinging out of control it was a hard pill to swallow) and two how scratched up my helmet was. Most new and young riders, and probably anyone who hasn't actually been down, I doubt really understand and appreciated how fast it can happen and how helpless you are if it does. I truely believe that is the spirit of this legislation, not to slowly take away our riding privileges like that butt-head in AZ that wanted helmetless rider fatalities to be automatic organ donors. Now that is taking away a fundamental right to have bodies treated however we choose postmortem (sp?)

 

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Was that really called for? You don't know me, you don't know anyone to ask about me. I think that Grandpa line was in pretty bad taste.

 

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Everything I've written IS the way this country works, for good or bad. You're the one going on about Bush, foreign policy, etc, on a motorcycle website. In case you missed it you're at your keyboard too, and you should really get away from your computer and out more, it can only help your people skills. Or is all of this just internet alter ego, easy to come off as a bada$$ online. You can make any persona you want. Kind of like the dentists and laywers who go out and buy a harley and only ride it from bar to bar, only cheaper. (Side Note: All of you dentist and laywers I got problem with you buying Harleys, just make sure you know how to ride it!)

 

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I'll take your bait, but this is the only reply you'll get from me. Because I think it is okay for limited helmet laws, doesn't make me a socialist. Expressing an view different from yours doesn't make me unintelligent. Thinking your own opinions can be the only right ones does make a person an egomaniac. Equating helmet laws with big tyrannical government is foolhearty at best. It's totally in this country and with me personally to be against helmet laws, but for people to get worked up to the point of belittling and name calling over such a triviality is immature. Which ever side of this particular issue you're on if you don't have bigger things to get worked up over, even as a motorcyclist, you must lead a much more carefree life than I. Of course that is why I started riding in the first place, to have a way off relaxing, unwinding, for a tankful of gas forget about the injustices of the world.

 

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Okay you apologized and I don't feel like starting another flame war. So let me start be saying I don't like or want government in every aspect of my life or your's. Obviously me speak my mind rankles you. What Rankled me was you jumping in the middle my arguement with longride, who actually I think jumped in when I was try to give a difference of opinion to someone else. Hey I've been guilty of this myself, it happens. Actually, there is legislation, or at least the threat of it for hair dryers, that's why they have all of the warning labels on. My belief in freedom in general, not just helmet laws for inexperienced riders, is that we get as much freedom as we possibly can have until it impinges on someone else's.

Oh and as far as the bubble wrap thing, I told a buddy of mine who I started riding with at the same time that statement and he laughed his ass off! I was always the kid who had to climb the highest in the tree, compete when the trainers told me not to, and did a track day in blue jeans, hiking boots, mesh riding jacket, plain unarmored gloves and a $100 helmet. I was out of bubble wrap that day and I spent my crack money on the cheap helmet. When government tries to put horspower limits on motorcycles, I'll write my representatives. When they tell me I can't put after market exhaust on my bike (Even though I no intention of putting one on my bike), I'll write. The day they decide that human drivers and riders are too dangerous an try to make a completely automated highway system, I'll run for office. This isn't far fetched, they've been developing the technology in Australia for over a decade now! I just don't have problem with a law that makes what are essentially inexperienced street riders have to wear a minimum of protect, i.e. a helmet. To me it's like people with learner's pemits having to have an adult licensed driver in the car with them. Now the fact that I had to pay taxes on my motorcycle when I bought it after the government already made money off the bike when the first person that owned it bought, so basically they are double and eventually probably triple dipping, that chaps my butt more than being forced to wear an uncomfortable helmet.

P.S. You're lucky I didn't get to ride today because it start thunderstorming, which is probably the real reason I have kept taking part in all of these flame wars as long as I have. I had to settle for a Astros game instead.

 

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Nice to see there are actually some friendly people here. This is why I and others as I have read, don't post much here. Not because the people's arguements are so ironclad they can't be disputed, but because people get so worked up over this stuff and all of the sudden you're a facist for having a different opinion. Man when some of these people get going it reminds of being back at work with the teenagers who complain day after day about the school dress code, but they don't petition or take other action to get it changed. Or even worse fail to see how the school as whole is been getting a better press, test scores have gone up, and there have been less discipline problems. Nope they would rather ***** and moan during class instead of listening to lab directions or getting their work done and then getting upset when their grades are low because even though a dress code may be unfair they missed the more important stuff going on around them.

Sorry to go off on a tangent there Capt, but I have a feeling others reading this ready to jump.

 

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Totally off subject

Is anyone going to mid-Ohio for the races in July? I'm leaving all of my riding buddies and fellow motorcyle afficionadoes, helmeted and unhelmeted, in TX and looking for new ones in the midwest area. You can't miss my bike, it's the '01 YZF 600r painted bright red with a hammer and sickle on the side. J/K about the paint job, but serious about find other riders regardless of politcal stances and type of motorcycle you may ride.