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When did they run the race? I watched Speed on Sunday and all I saw was the superbike race. I kept waiting for the SS race but no information was given as to when they would show it.



This is the kind of thing that PISSES ME OFF about Speed TV. They don't keep you updated as to a revised schedule when there is any type of delay. Nothing on the website, nothing but a vague crawler on the bottom of the screen with no REAL information in it. You always have to find out after the fact. Now, you know if this was a NASCAR race, there would have been constant updates and reminders from SPEED!! This kind of crap is BULLSH*T!! NASCAR is on 4 freakin' channels for God's sake!!



Am I asking too much?
 

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You should try watching the Motocross series on ESPN2. Last week they substituted womens softball instead of the race. At least Speed will run the races on Tuesday which is better than nothing.
 

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I understand your frustration, but in fairness, it is pretty hard for SpeedTV to predict Colorado weather. I was regularly checking with the AMA site to get an updated schedule and didn't get much there either.



NASCAR had nothing to do with why we didn't see the 600s race. Hell, we did actually get more motorcycle racing time than scheduled -- albeit rerunds from Road Atlanta.



What should SpeedTV have done differently? I guess they could have preempted the F1 coverage later in the afternoon -- in spite of the fact that Formula 1 has (for reasons I cannot fathom) a much higher audience share.
 

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Man zx got it right corporate dominance of the media with more of the same to come. Hope you like Nascar and WWF cause eventually that's what you're going to be getting, along with C & W music.
 

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Interesting Battle of the Brands

Interesting to see how the SuperSport results are rolling out in the different series.

In World SuperSport (WSS) Suzuki jumped out to a surprise early lead in the championship battle, to be overtaken by Honda. Yamaha and Kawasaki have not yet seriously challenged. In the AMA, Honda was strong at Daytona, and Suzuki pulled out a surprise win at Atlanta, but overall, it has been a Yamaha show. Having since been busted for cheating, the Honda and Suzuki wins must be somewhat tainted as well.

So, how is it that Honda, and to a lessor extent, Suzuki, are so strong in WSS, while getting their asses whooped in AMA? Some of this may be due to the riders, teams and race budgets in the respective series. However, given the strength of the American Honda team and the satellite Erion and Bruce teams, that does not fully explain the difference in results.

Someone on another site with whom I was discussing this topic suggested that it was due to differences in AMA vs WSS rules. I did a quick search and concluded that he was right.

Most rules are identical -- down to the same exact wording, but the following seem to be key differences:

WSS allows --

Porting/polishing intake and exhaust ports

Polishing and reshaping combustion chambers

Aftermarket camshafts so long as lift is stock (duration is open)

Replacement valve springs and keepers (AMA allows only shimming of stock springs)

Replacement valves

Modified or replacement air ducts to airbox

Replacement fasteners (aluminum for non-critical, titanium for critical applications)

Size and location of Battery is open

Plus AMA has a claiming rule for a number of the components which can be replaced (that is AMA or contestants can buy them from another competitor for a set -- and fairly reasonable -- price) reducing the temptation to go extremely high-tech with these components.

Both series allow machining cylinder and head matching surfaces to raise compression; however WSS (and also WSB) must run on unleaded gas of not over 90 octane, which effectively limits the compression that can be used. I believe that most of the AMA bikes run race gas so probably have higher compression ratios.

My hypothosis is that the Hondas and Suzukis respond well to the more radical cam timing and porting etc allowed by WSS rules, while Yamaha, and perhaps Kawasaki do better closer to stock, but perhaps with higher compression, as per AMA rules.

Bob
 

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Theory 2 Track Differences???

How about track differences. Ben Bostrom was saying the tracks in Europe are more high speed flowing affairs. In U.S. have stop and go 1st gear stuff he said. Could this be why the Honda does better in WSS and worse in AMA? While Yamaha is the quicker handling bike thus does better in Pikes Peak and Fontona etc. Just a thought
 

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It's both. . .

It's the tracks and the rules. The Honda is bread to be breathed on. It's heavier but makes gobs of power. All that power is really well suited to the substantially faster tracks in WSS. Ten Kate Honda seems to be the premier tuner. However, Belgardia (sp??) Yamaha and their rider Jurgen Van den Goorborgh (sp??) posted nearly Superbike speeds at Phillip Island. There's a pretty substantial difference between the bikes and tracks in WSS and AMA SS.

You'll also notice the difference the tracks make in AMA SBK vs WSBK. Ducati's are comparably poor handling and get spanked on the tighter tracks in the US, whereas their big HP adavantage and high speed stability are well suited to the WSBK circuits.
 

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Hell, can ya tell the difference? They are both hyped to death. Nascar has evolved into overblown spec racing devoid of the ingenuity and creativity of the old days. And WWF? I can't help but see the simularities...

 

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Re: It's both. . .

Difference in tracks certainly is a factor -- in general, V-Twins have heavier crank assemblies (partially because of the stronger individual power pulses, and part due to heavier flywheels needed) which tends to slow them in quick transitions. Their strength is in mid-corner speed, and driving out of the turns, but do not respond as well to quick corrections -- eg in left-right transitions. This is true of all large twins, and the faster they rev, the more this is an issue -- that is, it doesn't impact Buells like it does Ducati, Aprilia or Honda RC51.

I don't have hard information, but I suspect that the RC51, being a newer design, may have a lighter crank and less effected. I have not ridden an RC51, although I have ridden the VTR1000, which was noticably quicker steering than my Ducati -- some could be chassis geometry as well.

Probably the biggest limitations on Ducati in the US has been that they run smaller injector bodies than in BSB and WSB -- the larger one is not homologated for AMA. I am not sure why, but it may have something to do with the AMA requirement that they be made available in larger numbers at more reasonable cost.

The other limitation is that for some time, there has not been a really well-funded, top caliber team racing Ducatis in AMA -- at least since Vance and Hines was racing with BBoz and Gobert.

Bob
 
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