I think terms like "Power Cruiser" or "Sport Touring" are so nebulous that trying to pin them down is pointless. Some broad catagories for bikes make sense; you can pretty much tell what a "dirt bike" is versus a "street bike." Aside from that, it's all shades of gray from the marketing types.
Power cruiser?
There seems to be some misuse of the term "power-cruiser". I look at it like this:
A power cruiser is a bike like the V-Rod or the M109R. Why? BECAUSE IT HAS A MORE POTENT POWERPLANT THAT IS SPECIFIC TO THAT MODEL.
Bikes like the Mean Streak, the Warrior, and the Hammer are not power cruisers, they are sport cruisers. Why? THEY USE THE SAME EXACT ENGINE AS OTHER MODELS IN THAT MANUFACTURER'S LINE-UP. The Hammer is no more powerful than the Kingpin or Vegas. What makes it a "power-cruiser"?
As an example: If Harley built the V-Rod with the same 96" twin cam engine as every other big twin bike they make, would you call it a POWER-cruiser? No, You would call it a SPORT-cruiser. In order to be a POWER-cruiser a bike must make MORE POWER than that company's regular cruisers.
Bikes that are built as a sportier "crossover bike" to try to tap the aging sportbike rider market, and have a styling that is more "young", like the Mean Streak and Hammer, should be refered to as "sport-cruisers". Since the engines are the same as the Vulcan 1600 Classic and the Kingpin/Vegas models, they obviously are not shooting for power, but for more sportiness.
What do you guys think?
A power cruiser is a bike like the V-Rod or the M109R. Why? BECAUSE IT HAS A MORE POTENT POWERPLANT THAT IS SPECIFIC TO THAT MODEL.
Bikes like the Mean Streak, the Warrior, and the Hammer are not power cruisers, they are sport cruisers. Why? THEY USE THE SAME EXACT ENGINE AS OTHER MODELS IN THAT MANUFACTURER'S LINE-UP. The Hammer is no more powerful than the Kingpin or Vegas. What makes it a "power-cruiser"?
As an example: If Harley built the V-Rod with the same 96" twin cam engine as every other big twin bike they make, would you call it a POWER-cruiser? No, You would call it a SPORT-cruiser. In order to be a POWER-cruiser a bike must make MORE POWER than that company's regular cruisers.
Bikes that are built as a sportier "crossover bike" to try to tap the aging sportbike rider market, and have a styling that is more "young", like the Mean Streak and Hammer, should be refered to as "sport-cruisers". Since the engines are the same as the Vulcan 1600 Classic and the Kingpin/Vegas models, they obviously are not shooting for power, but for more sportiness.
What do you guys think?
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I don't think terms like 'sport tourer', 'sport cruiser' 'power cruiser', 'tourer', 'sportbike', or 'dual sport' are difficult to define clearly at all.
Sport tourers: ST1300, ST3, FJR 1300...
Sport cruisers: Mean Streak, Warrior, Hammer...
Power cruisers: M109R, Rocket 3, V-Rod...
Tourer: K1200LT, Goldwing, Vision, Venture, Ultra Classic...
Sportbike: GSXR, CBRR, Ninja, R1...
Dual Sport: BMW GS, DL 650/1000, KLR, Ulysses....
There are grey areas and crossover bikes that blur the lines, but most are easily put in a category once the category is defined.
Sport tourers: ST1300, ST3, FJR 1300...
Sport cruisers: Mean Streak, Warrior, Hammer...
Power cruisers: M109R, Rocket 3, V-Rod...
Tourer: K1200LT, Goldwing, Vision, Venture, Ultra Classic...
Sportbike: GSXR, CBRR, Ninja, R1...
Dual Sport: BMW GS, DL 650/1000, KLR, Ulysses....
There are grey areas and crossover bikes that blur the lines, but most are easily put in a category once the category is defined.
I jist calls 'em all........
........murdersickles.........
........murdersickles.........
I think the point here is that it's wrong to have a "Power Cruiser Shootout" and include bikes like the Hammer and Mean Streak, pitting them against V-Rods and M109Rs. Like bringing a knife to a gunfight. The same as having a sportbike shootout and including a Katana against the CBRR.
Or doing a comparo between models and including the Hammer "S" model. When you compare pricing and say "The Hammer is by far the most expensive" that's not fair when a base model Hammer would have been much closer to the price of the others. The S model is just paint/powdercoat modified... the rest of the bike is the same as a base Hammer (engine too). It would be like a cruiser comparo with all the usual suspects against a Screamin' Eagle Dyna and saying the SE Dyna was far more expensive than the others. No kidding... But if you used a Superglide instead it would be right in there with the price of the others.
It needs to be apples to apples.
Or doing a comparo between models and including the Hammer "S" model. When you compare pricing and say "The Hammer is by far the most expensive" that's not fair when a base model Hammer would have been much closer to the price of the others. The S model is just paint/powdercoat modified... the rest of the bike is the same as a base Hammer (engine too). It would be like a cruiser comparo with all the usual suspects against a Screamin' Eagle Dyna and saying the SE Dyna was far more expensive than the others. No kidding... But if you used a Superglide instead it would be right in there with the price of the others.
It needs to be apples to apples.
There can only be one, Highlander!
THE only power-cruiser- Yamaha V-Max. The pretenders: The V-Rod. The wanna-be: Everyone/thing else.
Honda gave it a go with the V-65 Magna- and failed. Suzuki tried with the Madura- ugliest [email protected] bike made in 1986- and failed.
H3ll, HD tried witht he FXR- lasted a decade- no power difference.
There is only one actual power-cruiser and next year we get a new one- bet on 1800 cc and near 200 hp- with handling even!
Sport-touring- BMW (three models), Honda (two models), Kawasaki (one model), Suzuki (none), Yamaha (two models- one of the two cheats it a bit), Ducati (two models), Triumph (one model) and a few boutique brands might have a model here and there. In reality, there are only 10 or so sport-tour bikes made. All the rest are bikes that MAY make good sport-tour models but are, in fact, not marketed as such.
THE only power-cruiser- Yamaha V-Max. The pretenders: The V-Rod. The wanna-be: Everyone/thing else.
Honda gave it a go with the V-65 Magna- and failed. Suzuki tried with the Madura- ugliest [email protected] bike made in 1986- and failed.
H3ll, HD tried witht he FXR- lasted a decade- no power difference.
There is only one actual power-cruiser and next year we get a new one- bet on 1800 cc and near 200 hp- with handling even!
Sport-touring- BMW (three models), Honda (two models), Kawasaki (one model), Suzuki (none), Yamaha (two models- one of the two cheats it a bit), Ducati (two models), Triumph (one model) and a few boutique brands might have a model here and there. In reality, there are only 10 or so sport-tour bikes made. All the rest are bikes that MAY make good sport-tour models but are, in fact, not marketed as such.
Well, ok, so instead of just listing bikes you think fit into a catagory, how about defining the categories and see how far that gets? It might be harder than you think, and I'll bet you'll get lots of feedback on what you come up with.I don't think terms like 'sport tourer', 'sport cruiser' 'power cruiser', 'tourer', 'sportbike', or 'dual sport' are difficult to define clearly at all.
Sport tourers: ST1300, ST3, FJR 1300...
Sport cruisers: Mean Streak, Warrior, Hammer...
Power cruisers: M109R, Rocket 3, V-Rod...
Tourer: K1200LT, Goldwing, Vision, Venture, Ultra Classic...
Sportbike: GSXR, CBRR, Ninja, R1...
Dual Sport: BMW GS, DL 650/1000, KLR, Ulysses....
There are grey areas and crossover bikes that blur the lines, but most are easily put in a category once the category is defined.
Any particular reason why this is so important to you?
Cause the bikes he likes aren't doing well in the comparos!Any particular reason why this is so important to you?
" think the point here is that it's wrong to have a "Power Cruiser Shootout" and include bikes like the Hammer and Mean Streak, pitting them against V-Rods and M109Rs. Like bringing a knife to a gunfight. The same as having a sportbike shootout and including a Katana against the CBRR."
Well, it may be "wrong" but motorcycle mags can only test the bikes that the companies provide. So if Kawasaki will only give a Mean Streak for testing then it's going to get tested along with whatever other bikes the mag can scrape up. I'd love to see a test on the Tiger, but apparently Triumph won't give one to MO to test. There's not much the editors can do.
Wouldn't it be cool if Kawi brought back the Eliminator w/ the Connie electronics and motor? Talk about a power-cruiser.Well, it may be "wrong" but motorcycle mags can only test the bikes that the companies provide. So if Kawasaki will only give a Mean Streak for testing then it's going to get tested along with whatever other bikes the mag can scrape up. I'd love to see a test on the Tiger, but apparently Triumph won't give one to MO to test. There's not much the editors can do.
Somebody has GOT to come up with a better nickname for the Concours. Every time I hear "Connie" I think of Connie Francis and her giant 60's hair-do.Wouldn't it be cool if Kawi brought back the Eliminator w/ the Connie electronics and motor? Talk about a power-cruiser.
Really...
... I think of Connie H. from school who had really giant....Somebody has GOT to come up with a better nickname for the Concours. Every time I hear "Connie" I think of Connie Francis and her giant 60's hair-do.
Larry, you kinda have a point, but the comparison articles usually mention the powerplant issues you brought up. And that Hammer S has a different set of handlebars, which apparently much improve the handling as compared to a standard model. And some would argue that the V-Rod isn't really a cruiser.
I wonder if they'll have a much improved suspension on the new V-Max, since that's really been the only complaint owners have had on that bike. Raptors and Rockets says the new one'll be a 2009 model. Is that where you got your info, Ace? Looks like that's going to be one bad bike.
I wonder if they'll have a much improved suspension on the new V-Max, since that's really been the only complaint owners have had on that bike. Raptors and Rockets says the new one'll be a 2009 model. Is that where you got your info, Ace? Looks like that's going to be one bad bike.
I love that guy. Raptor and Rockets may not update things every day. But that guy and his little team of m/c crazies are pretty spot on when it comes to future models.Larry, you kinda have a point, but the comparison articles usually mention the powerplant issues you brought up. And that Hammer S has a different set of handlebars, which apparently much improve the handling as compared to a standard model. And some would argue that the V-Rod isn't really a cruiser.
I wonder if they'll have a much improved suspension on the new V-Max, since that's really been the only complaint owners have had on that bike. Raptors and Rockets says the new one'll be a 2009 model. Is that where you got your info, Ace? Looks like that's going to be one bad bike.
Well the HD- night rod is a standard because it has a fairing and my old honda dirt bike is a touring bike because i have a tank bag and tie down my back pack to it when i go out climbing in the woods and the (pre2008) ninja 250 and 500s aren't sports bikes because because you sit up too much on them... oh yea and the Ulysses isn't a Dual purpose because its just an XB with a high fender and the orginal gold wing was a standard not a touring bike, unless you put a fairing and bags on it... and....I don't think terms like 'sport tourer', 'sport cruiser' 'power cruiser', 'tourer', 'sportbike', or 'dual sport' are difficult to define clearly at all.
Sport tourers: ST1300, ST3, FJR 1300...
Sport cruisers: Mean Streak, Warrior, Hammer...
Power cruisers: M109R, Rocket 3, V-Rod...
Tourer: K1200LT, Goldwing, Vision, Venture, Ultra Classic...
Sportbike: GSXR, CBRR, Ninja, R1...
Dual Sport: BMW GS, DL 650/1000, KLR, Ulysses....
There are grey areas and crossover bikes that blur the lines, but most are easily put in a category once the category is defined.
WHO CARES! what is the big deal? are you trying to start an argument (IE Trolling)? or did you actually have a point? and speaking of that, where are Standards in your list? where does the Honda 599 fit in?
You forgot the "/sarcasm".........I love that guy. Raptor and Rockets may not update things every day. But that guy and his little team of m/c crazies are pretty spot on when it comes to future models.
These two half-deaf nuns are riding on a noisy train. One nun had just been to Central America, and she's describing these big grapefruits and huge bananas. The other nun says: "Father Who??"I love that guy. Raptor and Rockets may not update things every day. But that guy and his little team of m/c crazies are pretty spot on when it comes to future models.
No, it wasn't a troll, and no, it's not because the bikes I like don't do well, I just thought it would make interesting conversation.
Guess not.
Guess not.
Well, I guess it would be too hard to break the bikes into 2 categories and compare then that way....Well, it may be "wrong" but motorcycle mags can only test the bikes that the companies provide. So if Kawasaki will only give a Mean Streak for testing then it's going to get tested along with whatever other bikes the mag can scrape up. I'd love to see a test on the Tiger, but apparently Triumph won't give one to MO to test. There's not much the editors can do.
M109 vs V-rod would be a good comparo.
Mean Streak vs Hammer vs Warrior would be a good shootout.
Comparing them all together is fine too, but calling it a 'power-cruiser shootout' is a stretch, doncha think?
I don't ride any of those bikes, by the way. Two of those bikes I find interesting, the Warrior and the Hammer. The MS does nothing for me, the M109R is swell but the swelling quickly goes down, and the V-Rod is gutless until the tach gets to where the Warrior bumps the rev limiter.
This is my junk...
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