[jmeyn]

Hail El Flaco!

At last we're getting our grist in time to grind it. Come on guys, let's rant!

All Bayliss needs is 72 points out of a possible 100 and if he stays second to Edwards for four races, he'll have 80.

So somebody else has to beat Troy; who'll it be? Hodgson? A Bostrom? Troy?

 

[KPaulCook]

Ducati getting Edwards next year?

Looking at the last race maybe Haga will take Bayliss out literally. Seriously, I think Bayliss will win another one. But I am disappointed Ducati is getting Edwards next year. I hope it is just a rumor. I would love to see Edwards teamed with Ben Bostrom somewhere

 

[34005]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

Wether it is Moto-GP, or WSB ~ The coming talent is: Nick Hayden, Eric Bostrom, and Daijiro Katoh- period! As long as their on competitive machinery they'll be the ones to watch.

I'll even stick my neck out and say that Hayden is going to be one of the greats, like Roberts Sr., Hailwood, Doohan, Resweber, Schwantz, Agostini, Sheene, Rayborn, Surtees. Most of these riders I've seen, some I've only heard about and wished I'd seen (Resweber, Surtees).

Riders of this caliber do not come along often, and when they do, they are incredible to watch. They seem to defy the laws of physics.

I for one, do not believe Edwards, or Bayliss are in this group. The last one in WSB was Doohan, and Fogarty came close!

Edwards is very good, and he is reaping the benefits of Honda's homework, but there is deep talent to take his place!

 

[jmeyn]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

I agree. All three can find a way to win if there is one, and they're all smart enough to keep the rubber under them as priority 1. In the long run there's no such thing as "win or bin".

 

[vfrpinckney]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

Sorry, red-silver, I can't agree with you there. Bayliss didn't race a bike until he was in his 20's. That suggests loads of natural talent to me. I guess we'll see how well he adapts to the GP bike, but he won't have a lot of time to prove himself at his age.

I'm not a fan, but I'd suggest that Russell--another latecomer to racing, also had the natural talent; he's the only one to win SBK on an inline-4 and I think (could be wrong here) that he did get onto the podium at least once during his short stint in GP's.

I don't know that Edwards is gifted with loads of natural talent like the "greats", but his work ethic seems to be there--witness the incredible set-up his bike had last weekend.

 

[34005]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

Nearly all evaluation of racers is subjective.With that beginning qualification, I have watched american & european racers since the early 60's. There are a lot of "near greats" hard working and talented "journeymen" that make up the rank and file of our sport. There are however a very, very few who have that little step beyond. Everybody probably has their short list. Mine is: Giacomo Agostini, Mark Brelsford, Mick Doohan, Mike Hailwood, Cal Rayborn, Carrol Resweber, Ken Roberts Sr., Jarno Saarinen, Kevin Schwantz, Barry Sheene, John Surtees. Also (generally) american racers of dirt track background race harder, and more inventively than racers of non-dirtrack background. If you have ever seen any of the riders I've mentioned you know what I'm trying to describe. They are quite simply on another level, usually a combination of hard work & natural talent. The riders you mention are very, very good, and I am not trying to slight Edwards. Watching Hayden at the Peoria TT reminded me what the special one's are made of.

 

[34005]

Edwards & the title

For the record I would like to Edwards reclaim his title. I think he has the will and the machine to do it right now. These last rounds of WSB 2002, will be thrilling to watch!

I am also looking forward to Moto-GP next year, there is a good possibility that Japan will have their first open GP world champion. (I'm not talking 125's or 250's here!) Katoh is incredible to watch! Maybe we get Haydon/Yamaha vs. Katoh/Honda, kinda like the old Phil Read/Mike Hailwood battles!

 

[KPaulCook]

Agree that Hayden is a natural but Bayliss has the heart of a lion

Excellent post red-silver I learned a lot from it. However, when Bayliss fell twice and still finished 5th I think that showed me that Bayliss has the heart of a lion. He could of called it a day but he didn't. A true champion. Like others of said Bayliss is also a late bloomer and being one myself I know it gives you a hunger that others who have things come early and easier may not have. Edwards is a nice guy and great ambassador of the sport but may not have the killer instinct.

 

[DucButt]

Granted the subjectivity of this thread, but I think the measure of Bayliss' talent lies not so much in his command of the bike, but his command of the brain. What he lacks in natural talent, he more than compensates for with mental acuity/tenacity. Bayliss has an incredible will to win, yet is able to temper it with maturity. For an antithesis, look no further than BBoz (or Kocinski?!) - an abundance of natural talent, but...

As in most sports, having the mindset of a champion carries more weight than raw talent. As for the up and coming americans: Bring 'em all on - All due respect to Roberts, Rainey, Schwantz, Lawson, Spencer et al, but the new crop of americans is primed and ready to kick world a$$...

 

[wjanssen]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

Resweber?? I know all the others but never heard of him. Seems I have to do some homework! Any suggestions for a website to educate me?

 

[jmeyn]

Re: Edwards & the title

Yes. Honda has so much GP1 rider talent now that the really good riders coming up have to pick the best of the rest. Both Yamaha and Suzuki are getting better. And both Nicky Hayden and Eric Bostrom show signs of genius.

I hope they don't desert SuperBike. They could win easily by supporting more teams and fielding two factory rides. Colin has shown incredible class by staying so close with no other rider to protect his rear.

 

[jmeyn]

Killer instinct?

You have to catch 'em to kill 'em KPaul. All season CE stayed as close as he could without crashing. Otherwise he'd have no hope now that his bike has a bit more thrust.

That kind of effort with no hope of winning is my definition of lion hearted.

 

[jmeyn]

Bayliss has an incredible will to win, yet is able to temper it with maturity.

You can substitute Edwards or Rossi for Bayliss in that sentence with no loss of truth. The best antithesis is probably Ruben Xaus, who comes screaming through the pack to finish on the podium a few times a year and in the kitty litter the rest of the time.

 

[34005]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

Resweber like Saarinen is relatively unknown now. He was considered the greatest american flat track that ever lived. In the days that the mile bikes had ridgid frames and spool hubs on both ends, Resweber could scrub off speed by pushing the front end at over 100 mph, and go underneath all the riders who were backing it in using the traditional slide in foot down, drive out foot up technique. He would plow the front, square the turn, and get the earliest drive. The only rider I've ever seen do that and get away with it is Kenny Roberts Sr. I' m sure some of the AMA sites have photos and history of him, I'll look around!

 

[34005]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

Here's the AMA site on Resweber:

www.ama-cycle.org/museum/halloffame/members/resweber/

Not much info., I'm there's more out there if you look!

Enjoy!

 

[KPaulCook]

Re: Killer instinct?

Good point thats what I get for listening to Speed analysts.

 

[417]

Re: Edwards & the title

That's a good point about Colin. It must be harder without a team mate and he has shown class by being able to do what he has on his own.

 

[painter_1]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

You forgot to mention Rossi he has a better win perc. than any other rider out there

 

[34005]

Re: Qualifying

As of this morning Edwards is the fast qualifier at Assen! (Also Kato is .007 off of Barros time in Motog-GP!)

 

[badinfluence]

Re: Ducati getting Edwards next year?

I disagree. I think Edwards is a quite great. He doesn't get the recognition, but his record speaks for itself. He may not have the raw talent of Fogarty or Doohan, but he works better with what he has than Nicky Hayden or just about anyone else, sans Rossi.

You saw that this year with Nicky. He is a great raw talent, but has no clue how to apply it on a consistant basis (ala Rossi). Even this season he has not been consistant in his finishes. He will have many years to develop it though.

Imagine the talent of Nicky Hayden with the ability to use every ounce of inherited talent that Colin Edwards has. I would go to Vegas with them odds of winning.

I'm just glad to see an American back on the the top of the podium. I'd like to see the Championship come back to America. Problem is I never know who to root for. I'm a Honda man, but I have always like Ben Bostrom, both as a racer and a person. So I root for both.