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Re: Study only applies to methanol

My God, you're thick.

The study only applies to methanol? Well, let's see:

"Turning plants such as corn, soybeans and sunflowers into fuel uses much more energy than the resulting ethanol or biodiesel generates, according to a new Cornell University and University of California-Berkeley study."

Um, I see the words "ethanol" and "BIODIESEL", kpaul, old buddy. Do you see them? Take another look. See if they can penetrate your filter.

"Plus an ecology professor won't have the last word the market will.. "

No sh!t. And it is.

"Right now biodiesel is selling above regular diesel ..."

What, the diesal/bio blend that's about 90% dino and 10% veggie? Well, hell, that's revolutionary. We're saved.
 

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"We, however, go our merry way running up huge deficits with ever increasing debt service."



And Europe goes on its merry way with cradle-to-grave entitlements that cannot be maintained with a birthrate lower than the replacement rate. Wanna bet whose bills come due first?



But I'll agree with you, government spending has to be slashed to match the most excellent tax cuts.
 

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"Then we could complain about horse poop and flys everywhere."

Exactly. Nothing's ever good enough because it's not perfect>. And free.
 

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Re: I thought you would never ask

" kpaul walks the walk"

Uh-huh. Got a catalytic converter on your 600? I'd be curious how much emissions it produces compared to, say, an SUV.
 

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Not to mention the Enviro Wackos will flip anytime someone makes a PROFIT! We can't have that.



Can you just hear them 50 years from now screaming about BIG HYDROGEN! giving campaign contributions to Bush IV.
 

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Re: I thought you would never ask

Check out www.biodiesel.org. My understanding is that it can be run in any diesel engine with no modification. The only real drawback I've heard to its usage is greater viscosity problems at cooler temps than conventional diesel. I think a great invention would be some sort of heated gastank. You heard it here first.
 

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I also read that they will work on having a portable station at home....Also honda is working on a fuel cell/some kind of hybrid bike.Also I read and I swear I read this is that harley davidson is working on one ,but they still want that potato sound!Only thing I ,d worry about is to get a big loud horn,so people could hear me.I called the company and seemed real nice.They are in long beach,california,and with the terminator saying he wants his state be at the forefront of the hydrogen science,it could make for a fascinating future!A lot of folks slam the left coast,but if anyone can do it,you californians will do it first!Must admit it is just the prelude of things to come. I would love to have a more faster ,longer range one and zoom by cagers .Also no ,one is going to steal it,cause they can,t refuel it!
 

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Ah, the environmentally friendly

Let 'em go back to the "good old days". Before cars... before greenhouse gases.... before dioxins.... before urban sprawl.....

and before novocaine.... before penicillin..... before antisepsis......before indoor plumbing.... Yeah, the good old days, right, knee deep in horse$hyt with a 40 year life expectancy.
 

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Re: Ah, the environmentally friendly

But things aren't perfect.

And free.
 

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Just came from the website,Nice,very nice.Sounds like something I,d buy to zip to and from work.So what I see coming is an awakening[finally!] of some people who are willing to be the edisons[though I like tesla better] of our time..Explain something to me fellow mofo,s.So it says that a motorcycle license is going to required in the usa,whereby europe ,only a driver,s license is required.Yet here in las vegas,I see ton,s of folks on scooters without helmets,driving around!Wassup widdat!I mean are not stores required to ask for at least i.d .befoer they can sell it ?I tell you I mean I have seen kids who can barely reach the top of a counter to buy candy ,on these things ! And of course they all went to the msf course ,of course!Anybody have any ruminations on this?
 

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Now that Kook has wasted a pantload of everybodies time AND that I'm back from a ridin the "Fat Lady" in rain, rain and more rain; perhaps I can comment on the eco-bike.



Why do all these things always look like they were designed by Hans Muth on acid? (he of the original Katana, R100RS....RS beauty - Katana beast!)
 

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And the Buzzmeister was right, not only will Tier II take out diesels - unless some new tech rolls out fast - think $$$$, VW has already pulled that way interesting Touraeg V-10 oil burner.



Actually I find BioD mildly interesting and I did actually read a lot of the link info supplied by the Kook.



Mostly university stuff spending taxpayer $$ and not exactly market savvy.



Seeing the Kook defer to a market made me spew my java...what a laugh!



If half of the positive stuff on BioD is half right, it will be extremely cool. But I'll neither hold my breath nor start investing just yet..unless I decide to short a BioD pioneer.
 

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To be fair this thing is about emissions, not efficency. They are not the same thing.


To be fair, it's also important to examine net emissions. Remember that hydrogen produced from electrolyzed water requires a relatively high electrical discharge, which in turn requires some serious power generation. In the USA, the preferred method for generating electricity is the coal plant. Not exactly environmentally friendly.

As far as examining calories goes...it may help to examine where those calories are coming from. Solar calories should be considered 'free', since that radiation is going ot his our atmosphere whether we like it or not. Also, believers in the greenhouse/global warming/fossil fuel theory probably want to embrace biodiesel beyond hybrid gas/electric and hydrogen fuel cells. Hybrids don't solve the problem of atmospheric carbon release, and hydrogen just moves the problem from a tailpipe to a smoke stack, which ultimately doesn't solve anything. Biodiesel does a good job of actually solving the issue of greenhouse gasses. All of the carbon released from burning biodiesel fuel comes from a plant. All of the plants' carbon mass is atmospheric, separated out during photosynthesis. The process of photosynthesis uses air (mostly 02 and C) and with the aid of the sun's radiation, the carbon is metabolized into simple sugars and releases the O2 back into the atmosphere. When the biodiesel fuel oil is burned, the carbon is released back into the air, but because it came from the air in the first place, the net release of carbon into the air is zero.

Remember that the diesel engine was originally designed to for farmers to run them on vegetable oil. The idea was that a certain portion of a farmer's initial crop of the season could be pressed into oil and power his/her tractor for the remainder of the season. From both an ecological and economical efficency standpoint, this may be the way to go...and we still get to keep our internal combustion engines.

An alternative to biodiesel, but along the same lines? Check out the Greasecar. Granted, if everyone had one of these, it would not be as useful or economical, but it has the same zero net Co emissions as biodiesel. I went to college with the guys who developed the Greasecar as part of their undergrad thesis and have a few friends who converted diesel cars to Greasecars. Very cool.
 

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Bush just signed an energy bill that has tax breaks for this type of thing, I believe. Yahoo News had a recent article about it, if you're interested.
 
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