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486 Posts
Would we ever see a V-5 on a streetbike? I think the idea is wild. I'd love to hear what it sounds like.
Rossi and Ukawa Give RC211V European Debut
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There are videos out there... just gotta look around. A friend from another magazine said it sounded like a VFR, just louder... and frankly, after hearing it for myself (via the computer mind you) I would have to agree. I guess you'll have to hear it for yourself. Heres a link to try out. You'll need Quicktime to see/hear 'em though.
http://www.orientexpress.com/suzuka/suzukavideos.htm
http://www.orientexpress.com/suzuka/suzukavideos.htm
Ok, question for everyone... er, request for opinions!
Everything I've been reading about the new 4st machines (Honda particularly but some on Yam) is that they are faster than the 2st bikes in testing. I realize that testing conditions are quite different from race conditions but, still, the 4st bikes appear to be exceptionally fast and could indicate that we'll see records broken all over the place next year with the 2st machines bringing up the rear of the pack.
What am I missing? Is this all propaganda or do you guys see the same thing. Is this any different from prior years testing? Are lap records always broken during the 'testing season'?
Thanks from a newbie follower of bike racing
Everything I've been reading about the new 4st machines (Honda particularly but some on Yam) is that they are faster than the 2st bikes in testing. I realize that testing conditions are quite different from race conditions but, still, the 4st bikes appear to be exceptionally fast and could indicate that we'll see records broken all over the place next year with the 2st machines bringing up the rear of the pack.
What am I missing? Is this all propaganda or do you guys see the same thing. Is this any different from prior years testing? Are lap records always broken during the 'testing season'?
Thanks from a newbie follower of bike racing
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105 Posts
Testing numbers can be decievingly high or low, depending on the situation and what the team is trying to achieve through testing. My prediction (which may very well be wrong; that's why people race) is that two strokes will be dominant in the next season or couple of seasons since they are proven, and riders are probably more used to them. However, I think that four strokes will be competetive. I don't think they'll get totally smoked, but probably won't win as much as the two strokes for now. They may not even win any races this coming season, but I think there's a good possibility that they will. I also think that four strokes will eventually become dominant in a few seasons. Much more research is put into four strokes than two strokes, and the power to weight ratio and drivability of these engines are continuing to improve. I may be totally wrong, and the four strokes may dominate the first season out. A huge factor is the rider, and if the both types of bikes are truly competetive against one another, the rider will be the deciding factor. It'll be a very interesting season.
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67 Posts
I don't think you're factoring in the rider as much as you should. The 4 strokes may well win ALL the races. It's the old Johnny boy squid argument. The better rider on the marginally slower bike will beat the slower rider on the marginally faster bike almost every time. The very best riders (on the planet) will be on the 4 stroke machines.
The LATEST DATA
THE track has been REPAVED since they last raced on it (record 1'43.7"). Today Rossi (Michelin) ran a 1'42.9" as opposed to the 1'43.1" yesterday and Katoh (Dunlop) ran a 1'42.6" (Damn!!!) as opposed to the 1'43.9" he ran yesterday, all on the 2-stroke no less. You make the call.
I wonder what the Yam (michelins) and the Suzook (Dunlop) will run. I like the tire changes this year. Most American riders ride better on Dunlops anyway so the change to GP may not be as hard. Looks like Michelin will have some major comp from Dunlop and Bridgestone. I thought it was funny that Dunlop was like the only tire used in 250 and mich was the only one used in 500GP. That I would like explained to me.
THE track has been REPAVED since they last raced on it (record 1'43.7"). Today Rossi (Michelin) ran a 1'42.9" as opposed to the 1'43.1" yesterday and Katoh (Dunlop) ran a 1'42.6" (Damn!!!) as opposed to the 1'43.9" he ran yesterday, all on the 2-stroke no less. You make the call.
I wonder what the Yam (michelins) and the Suzook (Dunlop) will run. I like the tire changes this year. Most American riders ride better on Dunlops anyway so the change to GP may not be as hard. Looks like Michelin will have some major comp from Dunlop and Bridgestone. I thought it was funny that Dunlop was like the only tire used in 250 and mich was the only one used in 500GP. That I would like explained to me.
According to MotoGP, http://www.motograndprix.com/Site/main/news_full_story.jsp?IDEdition=6148 , Rossi will ride the new bike. And just out of interest, does anyone else think that the little 'zorst poking up out of the fairing below the rider's right boot is the horniest part of the rc211v??
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23 Posts
Hey! Did you forget Loris Capirossi and Alex Barros with Honda Pons and the 250cc champion Katoh?
Honda Pons was the best team in this season, with Loris in 3rd and Barros in 4th in the championship, and they will be competing with 2 strokes next year. If the 2 strokes and the 4 strokes be competitive with one another, Barros, Loris and Katoh will be running for the championship too!
Honda Pons was the best team in this season, with Loris in 3rd and Barros in 4th in the championship, and they will be competing with 2 strokes next year. If the 2 strokes and the 4 strokes be competitive with one another, Barros, Loris and Katoh will be running for the championship too!
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105 Posts
True, the rider is probably the greatest factor in racing. However, a rider must be on at least a somewhat competetive bike to win races. At this point it's really impossible to tell how competetive the four strokes are against the two strokes under race conditions. I obviously don't know for sure, but I bet the two different types of bikes behave quite differently. The GP riders may be more used to riding what they've been riding. I don't know how big a factor that will be. It may be major, it may not. The four strokes may very well win all the races first year out, but they might not. Like I said, it'll be fun to watch. And I'm certainly not making any bets.
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120 Posts
A re-hash of the twin vs 4 cylinder situation?
While I know there are a lot of variables to consider, I just wonder in the end if the 4 stroke - 2 stroke situation next year will end up being the same as the 4 cylinder - twin cylinder relationship from a few years ago.
Back a few years ago when Honda was racing a works Twin, and Aprillia was racing in 500's, twins could often pull competitive lap times in practice, on a few occasions getting pole (mostly on tight tracks) but in a racing situation, they would get held up in corners by the worse handling 4's while getting blown away on the straights.
Will this be the same situation with 4-stroke vs 2-stroke 4's this year. It seems the 4 stroke is going to put out a heap more power than the 2-stroke, but it probably wont handle as well (for a start anyway). So I wonder if we'll see a repeat where there are compatible lap times in practice but in the races the 2 strokes will be running up the back of the 4's in corners, but getting blown away by the much more powerful 4-strokes on the straights?
What do you all think?
While I know there are a lot of variables to consider, I just wonder in the end if the 4 stroke - 2 stroke situation next year will end up being the same as the 4 cylinder - twin cylinder relationship from a few years ago.
Back a few years ago when Honda was racing a works Twin, and Aprillia was racing in 500's, twins could often pull competitive lap times in practice, on a few occasions getting pole (mostly on tight tracks) but in a racing situation, they would get held up in corners by the worse handling 4's while getting blown away on the straights.
Will this be the same situation with 4-stroke vs 2-stroke 4's this year. It seems the 4 stroke is going to put out a heap more power than the 2-stroke, but it probably wont handle as well (for a start anyway). So I wonder if we'll see a repeat where there are compatible lap times in practice but in the races the 2 strokes will be running up the back of the 4's in corners, but getting blown away by the much more powerful 4-strokes on the straights?
What do you all think?
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105 Posts
Re: A re-hash of the twin vs 4 cylinder situation?
Good possibility. The problem may be getting the power to the ground, though. However, the four strokes may have broader powerbands, and therefore might be more ridable. It's all speculation as of now.
Good possibility. The problem may be getting the power to the ground, though. However, the four strokes may have broader powerbands, and therefore might be more ridable. It's all speculation as of now.
The E-zines are a Honda tool
Roadracingworld, motorcycledaily, cyclenews, motorcyclenews etc etc, all singing the praises of the all-conquering RC211V, turning an unbeatable 143.1 with Rossi at the controls. Proof positive that the 4strokes will wallop the 2strokes(and also that there is a vast 4stroke conspiracy). well guess who turned a 142.6 today? i'll give you a hint - he's a rookie, and he's riding a 2stroke.
seeya
Roadracingworld, motorcycledaily, cyclenews, motorcyclenews etc etc, all singing the praises of the all-conquering RC211V, turning an unbeatable 143.1 with Rossi at the controls. Proof positive that the 4strokes will wallop the 2strokes(and also that there is a vast 4stroke conspiracy). well guess who turned a 142.6 today? i'll give you a hint - he's a rookie, and he's riding a 2stroke.
seeya
Re: The E-zines are a Honda tool
Well, I don't know the source of your 4-stroke-hate, but there are many reasons why I don't give a damn about these lap times, one of them being Rossi TESTING the bike, not pushing it, a totally unfamiliar technology, totally different behavior, totally different powerband, lots of power, a totally new thing - HARD engine braking (yes, after a 2-stroke with no engine braking, he gets now a 4-stroke with 220hp, imagine how hard that thing brakes when you close the throttle). And lots of other things, like the rookie's will to show everyone he's worthy and pushing the hell of the bike, which behaves just like his old tool, only with added power. I'll wait for the real race, and the final state of the RC211V, race-ready, before any conclusions. And I actually like the 4-stroke conspiracy - more chances to develop a usable technology for the street. And, about 2-strokes - I don't like or dislike them, but I also can't understand the source of 4-stroke hatred - I hated riding RGV250 on the street, and who cares about the engine displacement - "this 500cc machine produces as much power as 4st 1000cc !!! So cool !!!" - what the hell?! It eats MORE fuel than double-capacity 4st, it produces LESS power, the power is MUCH LESS controllable, peaky, street-unusable, no engine-braking (which is a good thing), pollutes (still no clean tech for big 2st), and banned off the street for most. Why insisting on its existence? Small capacity dirtbikes still run 2st, for their lower weight, and more suitable power delivery. For streetbikes - I don't see the use of it. And I'd be very happy to get a smaller version of 220hp-producing-IN-A-FRIENDLY-WAY V5 in my bike..
Well, I don't know the source of your 4-stroke-hate, but there are many reasons why I don't give a damn about these lap times, one of them being Rossi TESTING the bike, not pushing it, a totally unfamiliar technology, totally different behavior, totally different powerband, lots of power, a totally new thing - HARD engine braking (yes, after a 2-stroke with no engine braking, he gets now a 4-stroke with 220hp, imagine how hard that thing brakes when you close the throttle). And lots of other things, like the rookie's will to show everyone he's worthy and pushing the hell of the bike, which behaves just like his old tool, only with added power. I'll wait for the real race, and the final state of the RC211V, race-ready, before any conclusions. And I actually like the 4-stroke conspiracy - more chances to develop a usable technology for the street. And, about 2-strokes - I don't like or dislike them, but I also can't understand the source of 4-stroke hatred - I hated riding RGV250 on the street, and who cares about the engine displacement - "this 500cc machine produces as much power as 4st 1000cc !!! So cool !!!" - what the hell?! It eats MORE fuel than double-capacity 4st, it produces LESS power, the power is MUCH LESS controllable, peaky, street-unusable, no engine-braking (which is a good thing), pollutes (still no clean tech for big 2st), and banned off the street for most. Why insisting on its existence? Small capacity dirtbikes still run 2st, for their lower weight, and more suitable power delivery. For streetbikes - I don't see the use of it. And I'd be very happy to get a smaller version of 220hp-producing-IN-A-FRIENDLY-WAY V5 in my bike..
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