Motorcycle Forums banner
1 - 20 of 67 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What about "race replicas"?

We still need a world conduit that connects race bikes with street reality somehow. MotoGP racers are just too specialized to relate to roadable motorcycles in any meaningful way.

In the last decade the flow of technology from race track to street and back has been beautiful to watch: Superbikes, Supersports and FX have done a lot for us.

Thanks for the article, ElFlaco. Good show!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Racing is a waste of good money. I bought my new Suzuki Bandit 1200S because it has a great motor with lots of low-end grunt.



How many dollars are built into the price tag of every new bike to cover the factories racing team? $100, 200 or more per bike?



Philip
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Poor choice of examples.

According to the 1997 road test on the 1200S, "Suzuki's legendary GSXR 1100 engine gets bumped up to 1157cc for its role in the Bandit. Torque hits hard, low in the rev-range."

The engine and lots of other stuff that makes the 1200S great came from the race-based GSX-R series.

To sell as many bikes as they do, manufacturers have to find the best advertising they can get. Racing is one of the best and, in addition, improves the breed. Both Manufacturers and Buyers win.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,752 Posts
Excellent observations.

[*]Honda, like the commercials say, races because it makes Hondas products better. It motivates their engineering staff to try new things and it sells motorcycles. Honda's founder was dedicated to racing because he knew it would keep their swords sharp

[*]MotoGP will be the place to be because as you said the rules are made years in advance. Now that four strokes are in the mix there is a real world connection i.e. Race on Sunday sell on Monday

[*]Kawasaki did not pull a Yamaha because its ZX-7R was still somewhat competitive but smartly decided not to upgrade ala Suzuki because they probably saw the writing on the wall for 750s [*]

[*]The rules should be simple: 1000 cc limit, no turbos, no restrictor plates, no weight limits. MotoGP rules are closer to this ideal. WSB I suspect is dominated by Ducati and that is why purposed rules on 4 cylinder bikes will have the restricter plate nonsense

[*] The only reason why Honda made the RC51 was because of the rules against inline 4 s in WSB. If the rules change to level the playing field for greater than 2 cylinder bikes watch for Honda to discontinue racing the RC51
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,752 Posts
MotoGP racers now are more connected to street use

You are correct that in the past MotoGP bikes were not connected to the street. But I think that is because they were all 2 stroke. I think now that we are in the new era of the 4 stroke machines you will see the connection in the future. i.e. There will be a street version of the V-5 from Honda, 4s of Yamaha, Ducati, 3s of Aprillia etc. WSB rules were rigged for Ducati.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
It has been said that racing improves the breed. We need production based racing to keep the showrooms interesting. Even the new cruisers (the V-Rod especially) are being influenced by race bikes. If WSB doesn't get their act together soon, how many more teams will bail? The technology that is developed for racing is simply mind boggling, and a great deal of that does work it's way onto the street in one form or another. Lose racing, and the chances are pretty good that we will lose all of that rapid advancement and the improvements we see to the street bikes will slow to a trickle. Is there anyone who wants to see that happen???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: MotoGP racers now are more connected to street use

God, I hope so. But we're talking about bikes so exotic and expensive that only the engineering principles really translate into a street-rideable product. They can't sell the same materials, tolerances and setup capabilities at a streetable price. Accessories, tires in particular, are another story.

Homologation forces the manufacturer to produce a street model that can be translated realistically into a racing machine. Essentially, if they want to improve the racer they must improve the replica.

As a fan of the 1960s Honda CB305, I couldn't imagine such a machine as the CBR600F4i. It's a wonderful world.

You're right about Ducatti, but I'm talking about a general need; the current WSB organization sucks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
911 Posts
Without racing your 1200 Bandit would be a smoking, unreliable, underpowered hunk of junk, obviously you have no technical background of any sort, I feel sorry for people like you, you should buy a donkey and be done with it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
As was posted above, I rather enjoy watching machines that relate to street use. Sure the RC-51 that Colin Edwards ride is not the same as the one on the showroom floor, but they are close. I think if the GP bikes do start showing up in a consumer package of some sort, WSB is done for. That's why people watch WSB. The biggest problem with that is us poor saps will have that much less racing to watch.

.......Andy

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
720 Posts
Jeez, What a Cheapskate

Anybody who complains about the price of modern motorcycles hasn't priced cars lately! Philip still bought the cheapest open-class bike around. Why not just buy a 20-year-old KZ1000? Or a surplus po-lice bike?

Honda's racing effort is probably self-supporting. They sell lots of advertising, lease out GP bikes to the big teams, and probably consult for other Honda divisions and other manufacturing. But even if it did cost an extra $200, it would be a bargain.

Are factory test riders going to push test bikes beyond their envelopes? Nope. And where do test riders develop their skills testing bikes and more importantly, delivering feedback to the engineers who make our bikes stronger, more durable, and safer? On the racetrack.

Without a race effort, all bikes would be like the bikes made by a certain two manufacturers. These two manufacturers utilize antiquated designs and overprice their products. Makes you think, huh? Maybe racing SAVES manucturers money? And maybe that's how a cheapskate like you, who selects things mostly by price, can afford to have some pretty cutting-edge technology in his bike. Something that weighs 500 pounds and can go 150 mph for $7500 brand new is pretty cool, and you can bet it would cost $16,000, weigh 700 pounds, and start to redline and speed-wobble at 95 if it wasn't for racers and race engineers slaving away (and risking life and limb) for your ungrateful ass.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
Racing and selling

"Race on Sunday, sell on Monday," A platitude I see all the time on MO. What I don't understand is this: All the bike shops in the greater Seattle area are closed on Mondays!

luvmyvfr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
Re: Racing and selling

Watch the race on TV on Sunday, Smear your nose all over the bike shop window on Monday, go to the bank and check on a loan on tuesday, buy a new bike on wednesday, call in sick for the rest of the week and go see how many miles you can do.,, works for me!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,903 Posts
Re: Jeez, What a Cheapskate

I hate to say this but you're just as ignorant as the guy who wrote the original post.

Do you think Honda, Suzuki, et al sell their high perfomance products at a low price out of benevolence to you the customer? Do you think if Honda could sell a CBR954RR for $18,000 they wouldn't?

That "certain" motorcycle company to which you refer hasn't been in business for 100 years by making huge mistakes. Do you see many 1986 GSXR750s with 100,000 miles on them?

Face it: Harleys are built to last and Repli-racers are built to perform. Two very different ends of the riding spectrum. I always find those with the strongest opinions against Harleys have never owned nor ridden one.

I've happily got my 2003 Ultra Classic Electra Glide on the way, coming to my garage in January. It will sit right next to my Ducati ST4 in my garage because I understand both sides of the riding spectrum.

Open your mind squid and learn to enjoy life!

Ride Safely,

buzz
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,752 Posts
Funny how Harley guys are insulted even when you don't even mention Harley

The guy didn't even mention Harley and you got your panties in a twist. Hmm maybe you got upset cause he is right. Do you think if you took Harley's bikes and put a different name on them and tried to sell them here at the same inflated prices they would? Metric cruisers are not direct copies rather style copies but mechanically superior and priced realistically. Yep Harley's are built to last as long as you only ride them on weekends and only on sunny days. Don't see many folks riding Harleys every day do you? Harley without the name would be looked upon like antique replicas of the 50s. The equivalent of a 57 Chevy manufactured in 2002. Excluding the Porche designed VRod of course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
Re: Funny how Harley guys are insulted even when you don't even mention Harley

You have to give the devil his due, Harley and Bmw, though completly different target markets, both have to upgrade and modernize their designs while sticking to an extremely narrow focus of what's considered acceptable by their target demographic, case in point Bmw's K series and Harley's V rod, In the mid 80's Bmw's focus was to phase out the air cooled boxer in favour of the K bikes, they've since backed away from that goal in the face of resistance from their core market, the best they could do was upgrade to the 259 series motors in modern [butt-ug IMHO] versions of the old R series, Harley had to get Porsche to design them an engine for whatever reason, I know their own attempt at a sportbike that they raced in AMA superbike pretty well stunk, Alot of Harley guys I know say they wouldn't own a V-rod because it looks like a Japanese bike, how do you market to that mindset? when you put out a realitivly modern design your target market denigrates it as "asian". The best you can do is upgrade what you have, and play up the nostalgia happy days theme, or the bad boy custom theme and watch 'em line up at the door, Harley has some good designs like the superglide sport and the T-sport, which is a fairly competent all-rounder, but even THAT don't sell well. go figure. The Japanese don't have those constraints, in fact their target market expects cutting edge technology and will switch brands in a minute if they don't keep up, so they race and develop the best they can. AAAAAND up untill the last few years you didn't see to many 100k Harley's unless you rebuilt them a few times, none of my shovelhead top ends lasted more than 30k without valves or guides or rings or something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Re: AMA Superbike

Roadracing World is reporting that Kawi, Yamaha, and Suzuki may not field factory efforts in the Superbike class because the rules will not allow their litre bikes to be competitive with the Hondas (and Ducs). They would presumably field factory efforts in Formula Extreme instead.

Wow, wouldn't it be exciting watching a race between 2 or 3 Hondas and a couple of Ducatis? Not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Re: Excellent observations.

* The rules should be simple: 2 cylinder limit, no turbos, no restrictor plates, no weight limits, no displacement limits. I'd love to see a superbike with a modern (liquid cooled, four valve/cyl., overhead cams) 2 cylinder design and 1600cc.
 
1 - 20 of 67 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top