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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bargan based on "Out the Door" price

Out the door price, including sales taxes, DMV fees, and dealer nuisance charges ("freight": let's double what the manufacturer charged us to receive the bike, "prep": let's charge $500 for 1 hour of shop-time, "doc": let's charge $50 for going to the special DMV line with 20 other forms) is the best way to bargan.

This way, you can bargan for the real cost, and avoid a lot of potentially deceptive crap concerning last-minute nuisance charges. Let the dealer brake those down however he likes, whatever he likes (bumwiping fees if needbe), as you no longer care.
 

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Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

It's been my experiance that dealers, auto and bike, aren't really going to budge on freight and set-up. The best thing to do is as previously posted, work on an OTD price. Also try to work up a trade-in price, or a discount on factory accessories installed at the time of sale. That other stuff is just a cost of buisness they're going to pass on to you.
 

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Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

Some bike dealers will reduce these charges, especially if you can find out what they are actually charged for freight. As far as set-up, sometimes "assuming" 2 hours of shop time and then multiplying that by their regular hourly shop rate will work.

As you mentioned, negotiating an OTD price is the best way to go in most cases, but if you have a salesman insisting on setting a price and then tagging on this other stuff as a "profict center" you can have some fun w/ this aproach.
 

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Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

I'm baffled why so many people turn buying a motorcycle into an emotional personal attack on a dealership for "gouging me" and "screwing me" out of my money...."those s*****-sucking stealerships!" I got news for ya...you only get gouged or screwed if you allow it to happen. Make an effort to learn how to negotiate and become an informed buyer and eliminate the emotion from the process. People get emotional because they don't know how else to respond to a given situation intelligently and logically. Don't worry about all of the confusing charges and fees the dealerships try and tack on. Worry only about what your offer will be to them, OUT THE DOOR. That way, you control the buying process and they can take it or leave it.

I've purchased several bikes at quality dealerships by negotiating the best price for both me and the dealership. That means we both win.
 

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I completely disagree that there is nothing you can do about it other than negotiate a lower overall price. The best thing you can do is buy one out of state. I've done this several times and had great luck. Especially if they are off road bikes because you won't have to pay tax either.



I actually took the figure to my local dealers on several bikes to give them a chance to match the price. No deal, they're too damned stupid to realize they are losing a sale on not only the bike but parts and service as well. When they try to screw you on price, they'll do the same on everything else.



My local KTM shop just tried screwing my buddy on a brand new KTM 450EXC. We called around and got it delivered to his door for $1000 (14.3%) less for just a couple of phone calls.



Here in Colorado, they try gouging you on the "Fees" in every dealership I've been to and it's Bull$hit. Don't pay them, get the bike somewhere else.
 

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When I bought my new bike, there was never a mention of any kind of freight or set-up fees, just MSRP and doc fee - and when I asked the salesperson if she could knock off the $70 since I was paying full MSRP and hadn't tried to negotiate anything else, off they came. She did it by lowering the price and still showing the fees, but I was still out the door for MSRP.



Did I go back for parts and accessories? You bet! Will I in the future? Damn straight!



Of course, they may be doing this because there are two other dealerships for the same brand within a 20-mile radius, but as far as I'm concerned, they treated me right, so I'm a customer until that changes.
 

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Freight is a "real" fee that the dealer has to absorb. If a doc fee is charged to one customer, it has to be charged to all of them. I learned this from setting on a board of directors of a bank. I don't recall what law it's based on, but the dealer is very exposed to legal actions as well as govt. intervention if it isn't charged universally. I used to walk away from deals over a doc fee. Now, I simply tell the dealer to reduce the price of the bike relative to the amount of the fee. If he refuses, I walk on down the road. It's a profit center and nothing more!



Ducati "Foggy" Monster man
 

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Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

I agree. My bike was not the absolute cheapest it could have been, but it was carefully negotiated as an out the door price and a number of items were tacked on late in the negotiation at cost price. (Parriers, helmet etc etc) The price was a good one, yet allowed the dealership to make money.

For that the dealership were patient and informative and a place I still drop in when I'm passing.
 

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Not In Texas

This trick doesn't work in some states. In Texas if you try to register a vehicle purchased in another state and it was purchased fairly recently (2 years I think), then our Great State charges you sales tax on the purchase price of the vehicle. Pay the tax or don't register the vehicle. This even if you paid sales tax on the vehicle in another state. Texas has a slew of these law. They are known as Dealer Protection Laws. These laws are also the reason you cannot purchase a vehicle over the internet if you live in Texas. You may need to research this before you try to bring in an out-of-state vehicle. And of course all you people subject to california emissions are equally screwed.
 

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I bought my '01 SVS from a huge dealership in Chicago. I live near KC Missouri and had to drive a 20 hour round trip to get the bike. When I got there I was tired and just wanted to get the thing and get out. Those little [email protected] charged me 250 freaking dollars in prep charges on USED BIKE! I honestly didn't know what I was doing, mixing with those slimy city folks, but man was I hot after I realized I got charged for a 250 oil change and brake check that never happened! I called the owner of the place the next day and told him as politely as I could that the oil and filter change had somehow been overlooked, and he proceded to insult my intelligence and integrity. I ended up hanging up on him before I said something inappropriate.

Dealers ARE in business to make money, but you sure can tell the difference between the ones that regard you as somebody who's got bills to pay and the ones who see you only as an opportunity to rape you.

Personally, I wouldn't trust any of the dealers I've been to to put air in my tires.

They're not ALL bad though. Wait a sec, yeah they are!
 

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A Salesman Speaks

Yep, those motorcycle dealers are getting SOOOO wealthy off "gouging" you by charging you their costs for freight and set-up, plus a little more to maybe adjust for regional differences in dealership operating costs. You can see the salesmen and dealership owners hop on their MV Agusta or into their BMW 7- series after a relaxing day of bilking poor, struggling motorcycle buyers of their paltry disposable income.

A CBR600RR costs the same in Memphis or Manhattan, but you can bet the dealer in Manhattan makes less money per bike. So he charges a little more.

Good for him. That's how he can keep the doors open and the lights on, and keep his parts stocked and employees happy.

Here's something fun that happened to me last Saturday. An affluent couple from one of the more exclusive neighborhoods of San Francisco pulled up outside our shop in their BMW SUV and wanted to see our cheapest scooter. I took the lady for a ride on two differnt models and spent two hours taking about scooters, gear, helmets, parking, etc. I have a great time with them, as they are nice people and also drive their Z8 on the racetrack for fun.

So we go into the office to do the paperwork, and they tell em they won't buy until they get the "best price". I sell them a 2002 for $100 less than a 2003, and offer a free cover. They threaten to walk unless I give them another $100 off.

That leaves us with a $300 profit margin, plus another $80 from our additional markups. I get 20% of that- so I'm paid about $70 for the only sale I made that friggin' week.

Your hammering for the best price takes money out of the pockets of men and women that are universally struggling right now. And do you really need that extra $100 or $500? I think the haggling is done just so the customer feels better.

But we work in the industry not to feel better, but to make a living for ourselves and our families. We also love motorcycles and motorsports, and support the industry at the most basic level. If it wasn't for us willing to work at near-poverty conditions, there would be no motorcycle industry!

I don't want to sound whiney. But please, please remember, you don't need to buy a bike to survive, but we need to sell them. So please, please be respectful of dealers and how they run their businesses.

Because once the "going out of business" sales are over, where will you buy your next bike?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Begging your pardon...

But I've experienced otherwise.

When I bought my EX500 two years ago, the difference in out the door price between the place where I purchased and other dealers was over $800, and mostly because of nuisance charges. And I doubt most was to cover overhead.

The dealer I purchased from charged $75 for prep (the EX500 is a quick setup, but may be slighly undercharged, I'd say it was perhaps 1.5 hr shoptime total, including the tech briefing) and $75 freight (roughly what Kawasaki charges). Other dealers wanted $300! for prep, >$100 for freight, and another $75 for "doc" fees.

I don't like barganing in person, it takes a LOT of time (dealer and yours) for perhaps a couple hundred bucks. It's generally better (and easier) to just call several dealers and ask for OTD price quotes, it saves time for all involved.
 

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Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

You don't get it do ya? The world is supposed to be handed to everyone on a platter and if anything goes wrong the government is supposed to fix it. Watch out fer yerself? Any such attitude is not PC.

Where ya been the last few years?
 

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Re: A Salesman Speaks

Do I really need that extra $100 or $500? You're damn right I do, every bit as much as the dealer does - and in your example, if I end up paying the extra money, the salesman only gets 20%, while I end up paying the whole thing.

As I posted earlier, I didn't haggle over price except the doc fees. I actually would have paid a reasonable setup and any freight charges without bargaining - but the dealership never asked for them in the first place (so much for the old "the dealership has to charge these fees or they'll suffer" argument).

I'm a happy customer, who will gladly tell everyone who asks about my experience, and will travel out of my way to buy things from this dealership again. The things I buy there won't be items with negotiable prices, either. They'll be things like filters, tires, chains, accessories, parts, gear, cleaning supplies, and any of the myriad of other things we riders are always throwing money at. Because of the way I was treated, I'll be in their shop when I buy these things, and in several years when it becomes time to replace my current cruiser (I bought a sportbike from the dealership this time), I'll very likely go see these people first.

As a salesman, which would you prefer for yourself and your dealership - my $500 now, or my continued business, loyalty, and free advertising for years to come? You might want to ask the owner or business manager of the dealership where you work the same question, too...
 

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Re: A Salesman Speaks

I can understand your feelings as a person trying to make a living and I always take that into consideration when making a deal on anything. However, being that this is America, "land of the free", you also have the right to find a better job which pays you more. If your statement was totally true, then you wouldn't mind paying top dollar for gas, bread, airplane tickets, etc. Everyone has to learn to compete, no matter what industry or product it may be. Otherwise, you will end up like a typical union worker who is overpaid, underskilled and working for a company in an industry who is being left behind by the competiton (i.e. American Airlines).
 

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Re: Set-up and Dock fees?

I don't have a problem with paying a fair price for a bike, or any other product. I do have a problem with paying 20~30% mark-up on certain vehical's ( GSX1100G's?) However I can exercise my right as a consumer and shop elsewhere. Obviously dealers have to make a living too, but some of them are flat rude. I got the evil eye from a sales manager recently when I had the temerity to ask why a certain manufacturer listed an MSRP about 25% less than their price on what he admited was a "real slow seller" It was all I could do not to laugh in his face when he told me it was because of the lovely "new facility I would be buying the bike at, If I wanted to buy from tent in a gravel parking lot I might get MSRP" When I pointed out that other manufacturer's had nice shops too but they sold at MSRP, he rememberd something he had to do and disapeared. That's the kind of crap that's flat annoying.
 

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Re: Not In Texas

You will not pay taxes from another state. As you mentioned, you will have to pay the tax if you register the bike and put a plate on it in your own state. However, if you are buying an off road bike, you will not pay any tax, call around and check.

I bought an 1999 XR400 in Wyoming, brought it home and registered it here in colorado and paid only Colorado taxes when I applied for the title. My buddy is doing the same right now with a KTM he purchased from Illinios.

On top of that, when I bought the XR, I had no FREIGHT, SETUP or PAPER WORK FEES. My local dealer wanted MSRP + $800 for the above mentioned. I would have had to pay taxes either way if I wanted to license the bike.
 

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Re: A Salesman Speaks

I'll agree with you that a CBR600RR COSTS the same coming from the Honda Factory. However, I guarantee you that you will pay amazingly different out the door prices depending on where you live for the bike. You are confused with regards to COST and Price.

Do I need the $100-500 more than you? Of course I do, I work just as hard as you do. I'd love to see dealers go the "No Haggle" route and charge fair prices for bikes and eliminate commissioned sales people completely. Pay you a reasonable salary and require you know something about the bikes.

My dealers don't stock anything other than oil, spark plugs and some apparel. The sales people know absolutely nothing about the bikes. The people behind the counter at my shop don't even know who makes the bike I need parts for when one is sitting on the floor directly behind me. I've been asked "who makes that bike, its it an ATV or a Motorcycle?"

One of the local dealers here lives in my neighborhood and has 2 Vipers in his garage, wonder how the hell he could afford those with your analogy? Your working conditions are your problem and something you should negotiate with your employer. I shouldn't have to cough up more money due to your personal situation.
 
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