[sachiwilson]

Pah. Unlike you, I've done these rides using the time management skills that you pooh-pooh.

Longride, give it a shot. Go over to the Iron Butt Association website, and read what the site has to say about long distance riding. Read the forum for advice and hints. (Heck, email me if you want advice.) And then, try a long ride -- 500, 600 miles -- with an effort to keep your stops as short as possible. You just might be astonished at how quickly you will finish the ride, without undue speeding (ie, less than 10 over).

If I had not done this myself I wouldn't be so insistent. I probably would have the same skepticism you (and others) have about IBA-style riding. But I've done it, it works, and I am no longer a skeptic. Try it sometime.

 

[The_AirHawk]

Oh, think that's it? Well, dear, I'll leave you to your soma.

"A gramme in time saves nine!"

 

[sarnali2]

If you feel you need to sell the bike that's you're decision, no one else's. You'd probably have more luck on your local craigslist than here. A lot of us deal with injuries and still ride however again that's your decision, good luck with it. I have arthritis in my back that was exacerbated by a M/C accident a few years ago, if I stand or walk for any length of time the pain is pretty intense. Fortunately I have what's basically a sit down job or I'd have some real problems. When it gets too much I eat a few hydracods and wash them down with Gin or Whiskey, not the best solution but sometimes it just don't stop. Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[longride]

I understand that certain things in LD riding can be done with your style. What I am telling you is that the people that finish at the top of the Iron Butt are not using your style. To do well you need to speed and sleep deprive. It is as common in Iron Butt as steroids in bodybuilding. I don't need to rat on these people. They rat on themselves! That is reality. I think you know that is reality. I know you do the events, but you will never, ever place well or win without doing the things they supposedly are against. That is why the whole event is B.S. You know that stuff exists, and the Iron Butt people do too, yet they act oblivious to it. I'm just speaking what everyone else, including yourself, knows. I really have no real desire to do that type of riding. When I tour, I have found that 300 to 400 miles a day is perfect. I can get where I want to go, and actually enjoy all the things to see and do along the way. I have done multiple high-mileage days as necessary, but I found them mind-numbing and boring. I appreciate the fact that you stick to the rules of the event, but I would say that most don't, and especially the people that finish at the top, which makes it a sham in my book. It is very much like the roided up baseball players setting home run records. Nice, but fake. I am not as much a skeptic as a realist. It would be nice if the Iron Butt kept it real.

 

[sachiwilson]

Longride, "everyone knows" is not a very good argument. In fact, it's not an "argument" at all - it's an appeal to bias. "Look! Everyone agrees with me so you must be wrong!"

I've demonstrated to you that it is possible to make good mileage without speeding or sleep deprivation, from my own example. You have (finally) grudgingly admitted that it can be done. But you still want to think that IBR riders must be sleep deprived and speeding.

I can't persuade you otherwise, obviously. I'll just leave you with the comment that (as I've said before) you don't *know* anything. And unless you have the gumption to go out and try these rides, you never will.

 

[longride]

Since I have quoted more than one source of Iron Butt riders who have admitted speeding with little sleep, I guess there is no convincing you. Just think, there really wasn't a steroid problem in baseball until they actually looked. Everybody knew then too, but never said anything. Keeping your head in the sand about it doesn't make it go away. They can't make those kinds of mileages with normal riding.You have also (finally) grudgingy admitted that Iron Butt riders speed. I can easily prove my point by just following one of the leaders around. Certainly not worth my while, but it can be easily proven. Lets take the Bun Burner Gold. 1500 miles in 24 hours. That averages out to 62.5 mph for the entire 24 hours. So tell me again how there is no speeding and no sleep deprivation. The funny part is some of the Iron Butt guys do this more than one day in a row. Like my old Chief used to say, I might be dumb, but I'm not stupid.

 

[mscuddy]

Hey, we musta had the same chief. 'cept he sent me messcookin' TWICE for being a Parachute Rigger..damn blackshoe...

 

[sachiwilson]

Lets take the Bun Burner Gold. 1500 miles in 24 hours. That averages out to 62.5 mph for the entire 24 hours. So tell me again how there is no speeding and no sleep deprivation. The funny part is some of the Iron Butt guys do this more than one day in a row. Like my old Chief used to say, I might be dumb, but I'm not stupid.

Well, I've explained how I can do it without speeding. Short stops. I'd still need to stay in the saddle for 23 plus hours. Is that sleep deprivation? You might think so, but I'm not in bad shape when a 24 hour ride is done. The key to these things is to set your body up to stay awake - it's partly training in LD riding, and partly setting yourself up physically. I wean myself off coffee (and caffeine in general) a few weeks before a ride. If I didn't cut out caffeine, I'd tend to get less focused in the afternoon, and I'd start to fall asleep at 10-11 PM. Guys who do multi-day rides try to avoid any caffeine at all, but because I do only the one-day rides, I'll treat myself to a coke around 11. Peps me right up, and I'm generally fine for the rest of the ride. Also, experience (which is training) helps. I'm definitely better at this now than I was when I started!

The other things I do involve the foods I eat (very little, and usually dried fruits or cereal bars) and what I drink -- lots of gatorade! I also have my bike set up for maximum comfort, aided by Aleve every twelve hours. Because I'm comfortable, I don't get tired or strained. I can also see very well because of all the lights (three HID bulbs, three halogens). I don't get cold because I have electrics.

So, when I do one of these rides, I am confident that I can stay awake and alert for more than 24 hours. I'm confident that because of the way I have set up my bike, I can stay focused on riding. I don't call that "sleep deprivation."

Now I've said this before, but I would not sign up for a multi-day rally (except perhaps a 50 CC, which I have no doubt I could do.) I know my own limitations -- I can't catnap, which is a necessity for multi-day rides. I have no doubt that others can do multi-day rides safely, even though they don't sleep in a bed for 8 hours every night.

 

[The_AirHawk]

The other things I do involve the foods I eat (very little, and usually dried fruits or cereal bars) and what I drink -- lots of gatorade! I also have my bike set up for maximum comfort, aided by Aleve every twelve hours.

If you can't Eat Right, at least Eat Light! I second on the Naproxen or some other analgesic. Helps me keep from "stiffening up" when in the saddle extended hours. How did Cowboys ever do that on them big, fleshy, primitively self-aware motorcycles back in the 1800's?

 

[sachiwilson]

For this kind of ride, eating light is eating right. Eating too much, or the wrong things, puts you right to sleep! This is something every rider has to work out for herself or himself -- it's definitely an individual thing, and what works for me may not work very well for anyone else.

 

[longride]

I got it now. Not sleeping really isn't sleep deprivation, and traveling faster than the speed limit isn't really speeding. Got it. I see now. I just fail to understand simple shyt like that. That has been my problem my whole life is that I don't really understand the concepts of what we are discussing. Kind of Clinton saying he really didn't have sex with 'that woman' because there was no penetration involved. Natch. Now that you explained all that to me, then you are right, there is no speeding or sleep deprivation. Hell, you don't even get tired either! Well there ya have it. You were right all along!

 

[sachiwilson]

*shrug*

Your concern all along has been that the riders who do IBA events -- whether the Rally or anything else -- are unsafe. They ride at unsafe speeds; they are sleep deprived. There's a difference between riding at Cannonball speeds (which we disapprove of) and riding at 7-10 over on a freeway, when the latter is pretty much the prevailing speed. The former speed is going to be a lot less safe than the latter speed.

Same with "sleep deprivation." Where's the danger if you're alert? You don't need eight hours of sleep at your regular time to stay awake and alert, particularly on a 24 hour ride. The key is understanding your body's needs and knowing what to do to stay alert, or (on longer rides) how to work in enough effective sleep.

 

[longride]

"Same with "sleep deprivation." Where's the danger if you're alert? You don't need eight hours of sleep at your regular time to stay awake and alert, particularly on a 24 hour ride."

I fugured you would say that. Taken from Wiki:

According to a 2000 study published in the British Medical Journal, researchers in Australia and New Zealand reported that sleep deprivation can have some of the same hazardous effects as being drunk.[16] People who drove after being awake for 17-19 hours performed worse than those with a blood alcohol level of .05 percent, which is the legal limit for drunk driving in most western European countries (the U.S. and UK set their blood alcohol limits at .08 percent). In addition, as a result of continuous muscular activity without proper rest time, effects such as cramping are much more frequent in sleep-deprived individuals.

Your words, my truth.

 

[Kenneth_Moore]

* You don't need eight hours of sleep at your regular time to stay awake and alert, particularly on a 24 hour ride. The key is understanding your body's needs and knowing what to do to stay alert,

Thus, the sacks full of cocaine.

 

[seruzawa]

Thus, the sacks full of cocaine.

Or the sacks of crank for that modern "toothless skull look" that's ever so popular these days. 'Course with crank the ironbutters might end up racing across Central America instead to avoid all those giant grasshoppers that are chasing them.

 

[sachiwilson]

"Same with "sleep deprivation." Where's the danger if you're alert? You don't need eight hours of sleep at your regular time to stay awake and alert, particularly on a 24 hour ride."

I fugured you would say that. Taken from Wiki:

. . .

Your words, my truth.

I don't deny that sleep deprivation exists or that it has effects. It can, however, be forestalled if you know what you're doing.

 

[longride]

"I don't deny that sleep deprivation exists or that it has effects."

Okay, so you already admitted speeding, and now this. Are we there yet??

 

[sachiwilson]

If you want to think you've won the argument, be my guest.

 

[longride]

You are a lawyer. If we were in court what would the judge say??

 

[sachiwilson]

I honestly think the judge would share your concerns, but that she would also understand that IB riders take care to ride safely, and have developed techniques to do so.