[KPaulCook]

Looks like a boring season for WSB

[*]The unfair advantage given to the Twins has made the season boring. [*]The only suspense is can a non-Ducati machine win a race because an in-line 4 has no chance to win. [*]Look at the top 7 riders in points (all on twins) [*]Manufacturing standings are 75% of the points earned so far are to Twins (the top 3 spots).

 

[runner00]

Re: Looks like a boring season for WSB

what exactly is the advantage ?

 

[motoCG]

Re: Looks like a boring season for WSB

The advantage is an extra 250 cc. Two cylinder engines are allowed a maximum displacement of 1000 cc while 4 cylinder engines are limited to 750cc. I believe 3 cylinder engines like the Benelli are allowed 900 cc.

 

[raddog]

Re: Looks like a boring season for WSB

That is interesting, but are the engine outputs equivalent? That is, does a 750cc four have similar power output to that of a 1000cc twin?

 

[motoCG]

Re: Looks like a boring season for WSB

Apparently not! That is why the current superbike rules are seen as an advantage for the twins. However, there needs to be some extra displacement given to twins because a 4 cylinder engine of the same displacement have historically made more power.

Maybe bump the 4 cyl limit up to 800cc. Hate to see them fade away.

 

[neoyetif2]

Re: Looks like a boring season for WSB

It looks like most of the advantage is not the actual amount of power, but how the power is delivered. Twins have more usable power, power that can be turned on in a corner, more power at a lower rpm. Four cyclinder bikes can be a little peaky, power hits like a hammer, all of sudden like. Where twins have a smoother power delivery that is deceivingly fast. Ride a modern twin (I have ridden a SuperHawk, Ducati 851 and a Aprilia Falco -- and would love to get the Falco or the SuperHawk) and you will think that you are not going near as fast as a four until you look at your speedo or look in the mirrors for your buddies.

I guess it is all about the torque.

 

[4in6]

Why are people still whining about this? Does annyone remeber the tl1000? Suzuki is still making it but it got it's butt kicked. The whole point of racing is to develop better bikes. If you don't take advantage of every break you get and you get beat by someone that does who's fault is it? And I have to say that I think WSB racing has been pretty exciting this year just because the inline fours haven't won a race doesen't matter.

 

[KPaulCook]

Hello the inline 4 is at a disadvantage because it is limited to 750 cc not because twins(limited to 1000cc) are technically superior. Geez

 

[KPaulCook]

Re: Looks like a boring season for WSB

The high torque twins have in the low rpm range goes away when you up the cc on the inline 4 to 1000cc see GSXR-1000 reviews on this site for the curves. The point is they should change the rules to 1000cc period.

 

[KPaulCook]

Oh yeh the TL1000 was Twin remember not an inline 4. My point is that the rules should just be 1000cc limit for any engine configuration.

 

[Joe_Momma]

They need to either give the 750cc bikes a serious weight advantage (like 370lbs wet for a twin and like 345 for a inline 4) instead of the measily 5-10 lbs different they get, or just make it 1000cc for all configurations. It seems like in the BSB series and the Canadian SBK series, the twins still beat the bigger inline 4 1000cc bikes, 750cc superbikes still post better times than formula extreme bikes, so that may force the big four to make better open class bikes since the chassis for superbikes seem to be away ahead.

 

[4in6]

Hey Cook the gixxer 750 has more h.p. than the rc51 and ducati. The bikes in Formula extreme post slower times than the superbikes in ama. It doesen't have anything to do with the engine size it's all about the frame and suspension. The reason why the kawi 750 and the gixxer 750 are not doing good is because they are not doing as much R&D as Honda or Ducati. And by the way I know that the TL1000R was a v-twin that was the point Suzuki had a v-twin but didn't put enough effort into it and it failed to perform. Every year Honda and Ducati make upgrades while Suzuki and Kawi slack off.

 

[4in6]

Like I said before I know the TL1000R is a V-Twin! Thats the point Suzuki thought they could just throw a 1000cc v-twin in a bike and it would keep up with the Honda and Ducati bikes. But they learned real quick that it wasn't just the engine.

 

[417]

All this talk about unfair advantages and weights, remember its not that long ago the twins enjoyed a weight advantage in WSB as well. Down here in New Zealand we were all hoping Aaron Slight would win the championship and he bemoaned the fact that at that time the Ducatis (Italian) were allowed to be lighter than his RC45 in a series run by Italian promoters. As the twins were developed better the weight advantage finally got removed but by then Honda joined the the twins ranks with the RC51 and Edwards won the title. Shame he didn't repeat that because I always felt the series was set up to favour Ducatis in the first place. Fred Merkel might disagree with me having won the first two titles on the RC30 but it didn't take long for Ducati to maximise the benefits of the cc advantage. As for the number of cylinders it isn't really a case of the less the better or else they would all be on singles, and Rossi is showing how good 5 cylinders can be. In bike racing there are so many factors besides the engine such as rider ability, chassis, tires and no doubt luck on the day. I would prefer to see the capacity limit the same for all as it was in the days when Hailwood and Agostini were at it on their 4 strokes against the likes of Read on the 2 stroke Yamahas. What is interesting to see is go back into the archives here at MO and see how many people predicted that the MotoGP 4 strokes would have no chance against the two stroke 500s and Honda and Rossi have proved them so wrong. So you never can tell. In England the superbike series has allowed the likes of R1s into the fray but Steve Hislop so far is still reigning supreme on the Ducati. Kiwi boy Simon Crafar is on an R1 but he isn't getting very high up the placings. So power isn't everything. All this babble aside Edwards needs to pull finger and kick the Aussie boy's (Bayliss) butt and put the Honda where it belongs. I don't care that he's American if he's on a Honda I'm not cheering for the Aussie on the Ducati even if he is a southern hemisphere soul brother.

Cheers

Merv.

 

[Joe_Momma]

Southern who?

Southern Soul what? You will be OK man... trust me.

 

[Joe_Momma]

I agree for the most part but the Suzuki is not making more power than the Ducati. The 2002 engine is make atleast 185 Hp at sea level, which is a very torquey 185 and is a bit more than the peaky 175 or so on the GSXR and more than the 165-170 of the Kawasaki.

 

[KPaulCook]

You can't compare Formula Extreme vs. SuperBike

Formula Extreme is more like Super 1000 Stock not to be confused with Super Stock (750s) and Super Sport (600s). Super Bikes are highly modified (not stock bikes). You can't say that if tomorrow Super Bike rules changed to 1000cc everthing and no weight restrictions that Kawasaki and Suzuki (even Yamaha and Honda) would not create Super Bikes out of their liter bikes like the R-7/R-1 that was used earlier this year in formula extreme. I think Gobert used it. [*]Anyway take away all the restrictions away and see what happens OOPs wait that is what MotoGP is almost doing. Maybe we should just make WSB an all Ducati thing like IROC is for cars.

My point is unless WSB addresses the twin domination problem they are doomed