Suzuki XREO fast at Philip Island
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Harsh words. Yes, they are behind the pace. Yes, they have a lot of work to do. And yes, the costs are astronomical.
But, remember when the first 2-stroke V-4s came out? They could not even hold a piston an entire race. Worse, they were getting beat by underpowered, but light and proven V-3s (think Spencer and the NS500)...
Even after mighty Honda switched to V-4s, they were off the pace and had serious reliabilitly issues.
All I'm saying is 2 years from now, we could be seeing lap times 2-3 seconds quicker than the fastest 500cc's could muster.
I was in the same boat as you; impatient, judgemental, and quick to draw conclusions without all the facts.
Just mark your calendar on April 7 and watch...
But, remember when the first 2-stroke V-4s came out? They could not even hold a piston an entire race. Worse, they were getting beat by underpowered, but light and proven V-3s (think Spencer and the NS500)...
Even after mighty Honda switched to V-4s, they were off the pace and had serious reliabilitly issues.
All I'm saying is 2 years from now, we could be seeing lap times 2-3 seconds quicker than the fastest 500cc's could muster.
I was in the same boat as you; impatient, judgemental, and quick to draw conclusions without all the facts.
Just mark your calendar on April 7 and watch...
You talkin' to me? I have to call my friend's and we come and getcha.
I was critizing the story because "XREO fast at PI", when it should read, XREO still developing at PI. MO will have you thinking they are on the pace. I agree that soon the stroke skippers will soon be ahead. I think that any rider will be fast on a well designed bike, so anyone can take the the title this year.
I was critizing the story because "XREO fast at PI", when it should read, XREO still developing at PI. MO will have you thinking they are on the pace. I agree that soon the stroke skippers will soon be ahead. I think that any rider will be fast on a well designed bike, so anyone can take the the title this year.
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Oh it's you, the ubiquitous Joe_Momma (especially in MO). I was talking to everyone in general, but my response was directed more at the other guy.
I just made the same comment about Aprilia when another reader pointed out my "flaws", and that made me say "wait a minute, that guy does have a point".
I mean look at Yamaha with their M1, they've fallen considerably behind in the second IRTA test and that's because they're testing a device that aids in alleviating the 4-stroker's notorious engine-braking characteristics.
My first thought was "man, those 4-strokers have it in for them big time". Yet, the more I thought about it, the more I found myself toward the rider equation, not bike equation.
Look at it this way, Biaggi was a god on 2-strokes, but never had the form a 4-stroker had (he even admitted it)! Checa's a pretty decent 4-stroker (he has a R1 himself) and puts in consistently faster lap times than Biaggi. Hell even Kockinksi was faster!
Now Rossi, just to show that he can do anything on 2 wheels, regardless of how many cycles an engine goes through, puts the NSRs to shame. Better rider on better bike equals quicker lap times, right?
I would be very interested to see how Matt Mladin can do on an XREO, compared to KRJR. Or even the Go Show (gotta love that guy).
I guess I'm saying let's see what happens to lap times when you put a decent 4-stroker rider on a decent 4-stoke bike instead of a decent 2-stroker on a 4-stroker.
I just made the same comment about Aprilia when another reader pointed out my "flaws", and that made me say "wait a minute, that guy does have a point".
I mean look at Yamaha with their M1, they've fallen considerably behind in the second IRTA test and that's because they're testing a device that aids in alleviating the 4-stroker's notorious engine-braking characteristics.
My first thought was "man, those 4-strokers have it in for them big time". Yet, the more I thought about it, the more I found myself toward the rider equation, not bike equation.
Look at it this way, Biaggi was a god on 2-strokes, but never had the form a 4-stroker had (he even admitted it)! Checa's a pretty decent 4-stroker (he has a R1 himself) and puts in consistently faster lap times than Biaggi. Hell even Kockinksi was faster!
Now Rossi, just to show that he can do anything on 2 wheels, regardless of how many cycles an engine goes through, puts the NSRs to shame. Better rider on better bike equals quicker lap times, right?
I would be very interested to see how Matt Mladin can do on an XREO, compared to KRJR. Or even the Go Show (gotta love that guy).
I guess I'm saying let's see what happens to lap times when you put a decent 4-stroker rider on a decent 4-stoke bike instead of a decent 2-stroker on a 4-stroker.
Are you my echo? Yeah, exactly. I said the same thing to another reader. He had been saying that Biaggi needed a good package to compete with Rossi, but I figured that the M1 would suit Checa more than Biaggi, while the 2stroker suited Biaggi. Checa will make Biaggi look useless unless they magically make engine braking go away. I expected more out of Aprilia though, but maybe they are doing the same (testing to get rid of engine braking). The Aprila GP bike looked slower than the superbike.
I question the decision that Suzuki moved to Dunlops, even though I Americans seem to thrive on them. It seems to me that Kenny is happy though. Kevin Schwantz said he is getting SUZUKI to let Nicky Hayden have a go on the XREO.
Mladin says having a ride in GP is politic based, and if you want to ride in GP, you can still be mediocre as long as your are European. It's true to an extent. I would still like to see him head to head with Kenny, but I really do think Kenny has matured as a racer, and is truly fast. I mean, look at what he did in 1999 and 2000 on an inferior bike. 2001 was weird and he complained about a lot more than just engine.
All in all, I think it will be a season of surprises, and I don't think that Rossi's machine is perfect. It may be fast, but it's still an infant.
I question the decision that Suzuki moved to Dunlops, even though I Americans seem to thrive on them. It seems to me that Kenny is happy though. Kevin Schwantz said he is getting SUZUKI to let Nicky Hayden have a go on the XREO.
Mladin says having a ride in GP is politic based, and if you want to ride in GP, you can still be mediocre as long as your are European. It's true to an extent. I would still like to see him head to head with Kenny, but I really do think Kenny has matured as a racer, and is truly fast. I mean, look at what he did in 1999 and 2000 on an inferior bike. 2001 was weird and he complained about a lot more than just engine.
All in all, I think it will be a season of surprises, and I don't think that Rossi's machine is perfect. It may be fast, but it's still an infant.
you're post has a lot of well thought out points. several points of my own:
1)the title of the article was "Suzuki XRE0 fast..." which, compared to my oldsmobile calais, it is. compared to the current crop of GP strokers(the sole reason for its existance) - it is not.
2)KRJR cried long and hard for a competitive racebike, got Suzuki to ditch the RGV500 and now will spend 2002 as backmarker trash. They were so eager to bring in the 4strokes and it's obvious they're not ready yet.
3)4stroke bikes were supposed to come and and sweep the 2strokers right into retirement. Honda looks very good, but at this point Yamaha is going to have a very, very hot blooded Italian on their hands in about 7 weeks. KRJR will be beside himself. Sure the Suzuki will eventually be competitive(as all the 4strokes will) - but only after he's lost 2 or 3 prime racing years riding non-comptetitive bikes. I think in the manufacturer's rush to capitalize profits through this 4stroke racebike/streetbike affiliation illusion, they really are lousing things up. Sure it's exciting. I won't deny that.
As far as "getting a good 4stroke rider to ride the GP 4strokes" i think that statement makes no sense for the simple fact that the MotoGP 4strokes are a completely different animal than what the guys in WSB or AMA superbike are used to riding. I'm positive that those riders would need time to acclimate themselves to these ferocious machines
1)the title of the article was "Suzuki XRE0 fast..." which, compared to my oldsmobile calais, it is. compared to the current crop of GP strokers(the sole reason for its existance) - it is not.
2)KRJR cried long and hard for a competitive racebike, got Suzuki to ditch the RGV500 and now will spend 2002 as backmarker trash. They were so eager to bring in the 4strokes and it's obvious they're not ready yet.
3)4stroke bikes were supposed to come and and sweep the 2strokers right into retirement. Honda looks very good, but at this point Yamaha is going to have a very, very hot blooded Italian on their hands in about 7 weeks. KRJR will be beside himself. Sure the Suzuki will eventually be competitive(as all the 4strokes will) - but only after he's lost 2 or 3 prime racing years riding non-comptetitive bikes. I think in the manufacturer's rush to capitalize profits through this 4stroke racebike/streetbike affiliation illusion, they really are lousing things up. Sure it's exciting. I won't deny that.
As far as "getting a good 4stroke rider to ride the GP 4strokes" i think that statement makes no sense for the simple fact that the MotoGP 4strokes are a completely different animal than what the guys in WSB or AMA superbike are used to riding. I'm positive that those riders would need time to acclimate themselves to these ferocious machines
Well maybe since WSB and AMA riders are use to the whole Formula extreme and superbike engine braking, they may do better. Carlos Checa, a 4 stroke lover, even said he would have an easier time riding the M1, and Biaggi even said he would not. There is weight transfer involved to the front. Ever notice how Carlos Checa almost always lost the front mid corner in 500gp when he crashed? This may be the reason why. His style may be suited to 4 strokes. I think we may say more and more Australians, Brits, and Americans in the GP class if too many politics are not involved. While they may be different, they are Super bikes with more power and less weight. You would probably ride a GP1 machine more like a superbike than a 500cc. The smother power may alow the GP1 rider to round off a corner instead of square it off. Mo' like a Superbike.
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I agree with you Joe_Momma. I also would guarantee that putting the likes of Ben Bostrom, Colin Edwards, Nicky Hayden, Anthony Gobert on a MotoGP 4-stroker would put in more respectable lap times than Biaggi, KRJR, Katoh, or McCoy (boy is he fun to watch sliding) on a equally prepped bike as long as it turns 4 times.
There's not much difference between Formula Xtreme and a GP1 machine except that the GP1 are far more cutting edge, lighter, and more powerful.
Much like a SuperSuperBike...
There's not much difference between Formula Xtreme and a GP1 machine except that the GP1 are far more cutting edge, lighter, and more powerful.
Much like a SuperSuperBike...
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I agree with you Joe_Momma. I also would guarantee that putting the likes of Ben Bostrom, Colin Edwards, Nicky Hayden, Anthony Gobert on a MotoGP 4-stroker would put in more respectable lap times than Biaggi, KRJR, Katoh, or McCoy (boy is he fun to watch sliding) on a equally prepped bike as long as it turns 4 times.
There's not much difference between Formula Xtreme and a GP1 machine except that the GP1 are far more cutting edge, lighter, and more powerful.
Much like a SuperSuperBike...
There's not much difference between Formula Xtreme and a GP1 machine except that the GP1 are far more cutting edge, lighter, and more powerful.
Much like a SuperSuperBike...
Seems like I wasn't the only victim of the double post. Hey, I see it this way, they are just F-extreme bikes with a lil' bit more power, more CORNER clearance, they weigh less, and they are more trick, just like you say. I think that corner clearance alone is good enough for a second or two a lap. The current crop of Superbikes are so fast though, I don't think that GP1 bikes will run times much better than 500cc and Superbikes. I think if Ducati had built a twin (instead of a 320lbs v4)that weighed in at 300lbs, they still would have been up front in GP. With a 186 HP superbike running around, I am sure they could have squeezed 14 more with a shorter stroke. I am no engineer but I am an amateur physicist in my basement. Like that means anything. Haha
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Looks like you may be right about Ducati just needing to tweak the 998 just a bit more.
Apparently, Bayliss lapped faster Checa's M1 at Valenica (1:34.261 vs 1:34.654). Check out www.amasuperbike.com/newind.htm
But, remember that Bayliss and the Duck have 2+ years together while Checa and the M1 are in the infant stage.
Let's see what happens as M1 team progresses...
Apparently, Bayliss lapped faster Checa's M1 at Valenica (1:34.261 vs 1:34.654). Check out www.amasuperbike.com/newind.htm
But, remember that Bayliss and the Duck have 2+ years together while Checa and the M1 are in the infant stage.
Let's see what happens as M1 team progresses...
Bayliss is like Rossi, he is fast with a wheelbarrel and some Nikes on. If you can somehow find them, check out some of his AUstralian SBK races. Man, that guy looks like an extreme version of Aaron Yates, sliding his bike almost completely sideways, the bike at a 90 degree. I guess he got smoother with age and it helps when you ride a twin, although he, Boz, Nicki and Kurtis still get it out there. Now if that Duc had a few more horses and 55 less lbs, it would be a giant killer. 55 is a lot.
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