I'm running those Pirelli Dialbo Corsas on my track bike. So far I only have on track day on them, but they worked great. They heated up much faster then the D207RR's I was running. I will be running the same tires at my next track day. I'm happy with them.
There are variables that make the number of heat cycles and overall laps shorter:
Hot track bad
Powerful bike bad
Fast rider bad
Spastic throttle hand (Kurtis Robert) bad
Smooth, graceful riding is both good form and also easy on tires. A guy like Kurtis on a mega power bike can kill a set in 10 laps. Freddie Spencer on a lightweight could probably ride a dozen sessions.
To all responders: how many miles are you getting and on what bike?
I have Pilot Sports on my Hawk and the rear is looking like 3K miles will be impossibly long. Haven't done a track day on them yet, but the Michelin race rep said they'd last less then the old Pilot Race because of heat issues. The Race tires were good for one blazing hot 6 hour endurance race, plus maybe 4 practice sessions. I figure 3-4 track days.
Metzeler, as you know, owns Pirelli--and if the Metzeler Sportec and Pirelli Diablo aren't close to the same tire with different tread patterns, I'd be surprised. Both are excellent tires capable of very high-speed track lapping, perfect for track days for guys who aren't professionals trying to win money from each other.
The beauty of these supersport street tires is that, as street tires, they're built to cycle through many hot/cold cycles--and you can ride them pretty much til the tread's gone (but that's me speaking as a magazine guy who never keeps a bike longer than a month or two, so I defer to longer-term users).
When you step up to Metzeler Rennsport or Diablo Supercorsa or Michelin Pilot Race, you're getting into race tires, which have more grip but also generate more heat, and break down much more quickly as a result. It's cool to have "race tires," but the fact is 90% of guys at track days will go just as fast on the supersport rubber; it's not their tires holding them back in other words.
Dunlop D208 is also very good, so is whatever those Bridgestones were at the GSX-R1000 launch in Australia a couple months ago... Until you can lap within about 20 seconds of Mladin or Gobert--which is tougher than it sounds--you truly don't need anything stickier. And, you can untape your lights after a track day and you're right back happy on the street. We live in great tire times, too.
It's cool to have "race tires," but the fact is 90% of guys at track days will go just as fast on the supersport rubber; it's not their tires holding them back in other words.
Bingo. Truer words were never spoken. Even if you do several track days per year, the only things that will really matter to you about your tires will be price, reliability, and longevity. There are very few riders putting themselves in a position where the difference between one tire's performance and another make any difference at all, and those riders are racing.
For example: Me. I have recently started racing supermotard. The actual race thing is a world of difference from track days, and my skills have really picked up. For some fun, I did a track day last month on my street bike, a SV650. Using the stock MEZ4s (a sport touring compound) I was passing liter bikes and supersports with supersport tires and even slicks in some cases.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that unless you're really spending the time and money to up your skills and ride competitively, there's nothing about a modern touring compound tire that's going to hold you back, even on track days. Save your pennies for other things. Supersport tires, and racing compound tires are a waste for anyone not gunning for contingency money at a competition.
Re: I would guess the Pirelli is geared mo towards the
Actually the Diablo has greater (read more and deeper) tread siping than the Sportecs. They are both basicly the same carcass and compound with different tread designs, but wet performance was one of the key design targets for the Diablo. Both tires are fantastic for street+track duty.
That's pretty impressive. Are you doing any endorsements?
I'm at a similar point in my roadracing career. My next step in becoming even more competitive is to somehow find a way to get everyone else to slow down. I've tried asking politely. I've tried playing on my competitors sympathy ("come on, let me win. I let you win last time.") So far, no luck. Any advice?
On another front, I have found a way to keep fresh tires on my bike. Cheng Shin pays me to cover up their name on my tires.
Heheh, good one. I know of a better way to win, but it's risky. Disabling the competition's machinery while it's in the pits can sometimes gain me those extra minutes I need to avoid being lapped, but not always. And when the other guys find out...not pretty.
What are you racing in Supermotard (Bike, tires, etc.)? I'm about to get into it with my DR350 shod w/Dunlop K750 front (paid $20 for it!!!) and Pirelli MT90 A/T rear. Both bike and tires seem adequate for my dual purpose riding, but I wonder how they will fare in the racing environment. Maybe I should wait until I get the KTM? MO, it's time for a supermotard test!! VOR, Vertimati, KTM, Husaberg, Husqvarna, etc. Whaddaya say Sean, JB? How about it?
While we're at it. Has anyone extensively ridden the Michelin Pilot Road, which supposedly comes stock on the FJ1300? I am due for a new rear tire on the R1100SBX in ~2K miles. It came w/Michelin Hi-Sports. I assume the Hi-Sports are similar in casing and compound to the Pilot Sports that replaced it. The literature for the Pilot Road makes it sound like a great sport-tour tire, no sacrifice in stickyness, but a major improvement in mileage. I've been happy with the Hi-Sports, but I don't know any better. Please feel free to recommend and share your knowledge of similar (Sport-Touring) tires for the R1100S.
I use Michelin Pilot Sports on my 2002 CBR 600. I replaced the rear after 10,000 km - which included 6 track days at Phillip Island (about 1,200 kms on the track). Only the left side of the tire was worn (cos Phillip Is is mostly left handers).
I have since done 2,000 kms including 4 track days on the new tire. I'm getting faster on the track (now in medium group), and the new tire is definitely showing wear on the left side. But I expect to get quite a bit more wear out of them. What I really need to do, is start going to a different race-track with mostly right handers.
My best lap time at Phillip Is is 2:06.
Burn's video lap on the GSXR1000 was about 1:50.
Valentino laps around 1:33
My partner (who laps at 2:40) got 20,000 kms (including 4 track days) out of her Michelin Pilot Sports on a 2000 R6.
What are you racing in Supermotard (Bike, tires, etc.)?
2000 Husqvarna SM610S, Maxxis Goldspeed intermediate supermoto tires, medium compound.
The bike is 60 pounds overweight. (battery, starter, counterbalancer, centrifugal compression release, speedometer, lighting coil, espresso maker, kitchen sink, etc.)
The rider is 25 pounds overweight (desk job, Krispy Kremes, satellite TV, cabernet, etc.)
Every time I go out, I get lapped by less riders in the final. I take that as a good sign. Two of the riders in my class in the local series are in the top ten in the Superbikers 2 Sport Rider Magazine national supermoto championship series. They are ungodly fast.
If I had it to do all over again, I would have started in a lesser class: Maybe get a YZ250F or an XR400 and run in the Lightweight Motard class instead of getting my a$$ handed to me in the Premier Open Supermotard class.
You can race any bike you want, on any tires you want in supermotard. There's a class for everyone. Quit hesitating. Just go do it.
"What I really need to do, is start going to a different race-track with mostly right handers"
I dunno, I can't remember too many Clockwise track in Australia. There is Barbagello and the track at Ipswich outside Brisbane (can't remember its name - starts with W I think). I don't know about Broadford it might be clockwise. But don't bother with Sydney, the 2 track around here are both anti-clockwise.
"My partner (who laps at 2:40) got 20,000 kms (including 4 track days) out of her Michelin Pilot Sports on a 2000 R6."
20,000km? HOW?!! she must be very light, very, very light on the throttle and she couldn't be doing too much touring.
Broadford does go clockwise. Unfortunately I cannot find where they advertise their ride days. The Australian Superbike School only have one ride day at Broadford, and it is in late May - which is a bit of a worry weather wise.
My partner used to lap at 3:00. It's only been recently her times have come down. She actually wore down the middle of the tire (flat spotted it), the sides still had plenty of tread. With her recently improved speed, I expect she'll only get around 15,000 kms on this set.
How about those of us who want stick but with a few more miles?
I run Bridgestone BT020's on my R1100S. I don't do track days (yet), but I do the ocassional run up and down Palomar Mt. (San Diego) and also the ocassional 500 or 1000-mile weekend. My 020's are nearly beat with almost 5000 miles on them. Is there a better choice out there? I was toying with the idea of the Michelin Macadams...
10,000 Kms????? Wow. Good for you. I wish I had the same performance.
I've got a lightened NT650 Hawk (380 wet), plus my 225 lbs, all pushed by 50hp. At 1,000 miles, my rear Pilot Sport are getting a noticable flat spot (I live in flat, boring road land). If I see 3,000 miles, I'll be surprised.
The tires feel fantastic on the street, and I have raced on them before. Just wish they'd hold up better on the straight roads I have to live with.
Yeah, I've done the Spurs a few times. But nothing compares the race track. I'm simply not willing to ride anywhere near my limits in such an uncontrolled situation.
Personally, my favourite roads are the Great Alpine Rd between Bairnsdale & Omeo, the road between Whitfield & Mansfield, the road between Lorne and Dean's Marsh (much less traffic than the Great Ocean Rd) and the road up to Mt Donna Buang.
Every time I've done the Spurs, it has been packed with cars. And there has always been at least one car than has crossed the line while passing me around a corner. Plus I haven't found the road condition to be that great.