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Super Duper Mod Man
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Re: PITA Facing The Facts...Huh?

Hey dude give it a break. I own a V-Max too. It has it's good and bad points, just like Harleys do. I found in motorcycling the only "cold hard fact" is ride what you like, and don't really worry about the rest. When one guy has a bike that is "superior" to all others, it's probably because his ego is firmly attached to the bike. Detach the ego and go ride and enjoy em all. I do.
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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"A semi-exotic American sportbike would probably be pretty profitable to develop."



Actually, if they need to ***** away profits, I think they shoud develop a whole line of sportbikes and spend millions racing them. Maybe Ducati can buy them out too.
 

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At that time AMF owned Harley. As for engineering, they upgraded the Shovelhead to AC instead of DC electrical system, developed the first factory "custom" line by mating a Sportster front end on to Electaglide, and added maintainance free hydrolic lifters, Harley also had two wheel disc brakes and electronic ignitions before anyone else. And had factory hard bags and a windshield/ fairing before anyone else. At the time these were innovative advances that we take for granted now

Harley pretty much invented the full dress touring bike as well as the custom cruiser style. And up until the Z-1 showed up the Sportster was one of the fastest bikes on the road. If you're going to judge and second guess the past you have to keep thing within the context of the times, not judge by todays standards. It wasn't innovation that put the Japanese ahead, it was cheap affordable bikes and *****-poor management in England.
 

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Gee I guess I'll have to vote for him now.



If this is the thought process that is prevalent among the majority of voters (I fear it is) then we are doomed to become servants to the all-powerful nation-state no matter who wins (we are).
 

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Re: PITA Facing The Facts...Huh?

Sorry, did not mean to be so rude with rubbing in the facts, I just get tired of folks distorting the truth and even worse spouting off bogus statements of someone saying things which were not said or implied. V-Max is not superior to all bikes, just really good at what is was designed for. I don't even own a Max anymore but secretly want one again.
 

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The Toad
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17,461 Posts
It was the overweening postwar arrogance of the victors of WWII that did themselves in. The Americans and Brits thought they could sell 30's technology powerplants and chassis forever.



American, Brits, Japanese, Germans.. all are capable of first rate engineering. It simply takes the will to do so. While the Americans and Brits were sitting on their laurels selling the same 30's tech they always had - and using planned obsolesence in an attempt to force consumers to turn over their junk vehicles even more often - the Japanese came on the scene with inexpensive vehicles that would run without breaking. And they began to incorporate the technological changes that were sidetracked for a couple of decades by WWII.



If anyone showed how not to maintain market domination in a changing economy it was the American and Brit auto and bike industries. I still remember how shocked everyone in my family was when my aunt bought a 1970 Datsun 510 and it ran an entire year without once needing a single repair. Unheard of!
 

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Frenchie Kerry rode BMW's - probably a buddy of the self styled "Editor in Chief" of BMW OTL...the ever overblown Hellmann (oops, I mean Hellman ;).



Kook can't even get the bike stuff right on his "Man".
 

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I was probably a little too critical of The Motor Company, which is a weird name. They should be The Chassis Company.



As the article shows, and as we all know, Harley clearly was at the forefront a while back, a point I'm not disputing. I'm just disappointed that their engineering efforts since that time have largely been limited to a very interesting chassis development project (Buell line), the V-Rod and the now cold VR1000 racing project.



All of those things are cool. The VR1000 and the Buell line show that Harley is capable of both innovation and refinement of existing ideas. They just haven't developed a relatively great motor since, apparently, 1979. The V-Rod motor is good, not great, for its application, and the base VR1000 motor was fine in 1994, but by the time they got the chassis sorted, the engine was lagging.



My ultimate point is that they should find a way to allow themselves to build a kick-ass engine. I would have bought an XB-12R if it had a real engine instead of a CBR1000RR, for example, at anything close to a similar price, just for the neatness. But the engine's only about one place removed from useless, so my choices were limited by what appears to be some sort of weird corporate Ludditism towards advanced engine technology, which is irritating.



cdg



p.s. longride, I think that the better analogy is that Harley could sell semi-exotic sportbikes and then compete with Ducati to buy Aprilia.



p.p.s. "You can't use the power of superbike replica blah blah blah I could outride you on my kid's tricycle harumph harumph d*#@ squids."
 

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MODERATOR X
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5,449 Posts
Re: The V-Four Briggs & Stratton

That Nova engine (Spanish for no-go) looks like a Briggs & Stratton V-4 industrial engine, with water jackets. Even had the generator in the same place.

Coincidence?
 
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