Motorcycle Forums banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Re: Spain, Final Qualifying Results:

Awesome! Ducati on pole and second in the third race of their long-in-coming return to GP. An incredible achievement--and another reason I will never, ever own a Harley Davidson.

Did you know that H-D abandoned their superbike effort only a few weeks after September 11, 2001? Way to show the world what you're made of, H-D!

Congratulations to Ducati--a company run by real men.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Re: Spain, Final Qualifying Results:

You're a bit mis-guided (nice way of saying you're an idiot).

Ducati should be applauded for its' racing efforts, but chastising Harley for business decisions you know little about isn't fair.

The unfortunate demise of Harley's road racing efforts had, and this is just a common-sense guess, little to due with the tragic events of 9/11. Are you related to Oliver Stone, by chance?

And to argue which company is run better is rather pointless (but why not try). Harley seems to be run be real SMART men, as their market share and stock returns prove. As for Ducati, they've just shuffled managment in the US. So the question is, are these guys that just got the boot the "real men," or are the new guys the "real men?" Are the guys that run the race team the "real men?"

If you don't like Harley, fine. Many do, and that's their choice. And remember, never say never.

-The People
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
170 Posts
Ducati are doing real well. How long is it since Rossi was on the second row? Your boy Hopper didn't do so bad either - if only he can carry though to the race for the whole distance. NIcky Hayden????? Looks like it will be an interesting race.

Cheers from NZ.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,640 Posts
Who will reign in Spain, after a long ride in a plane? (Sorry)



Top 20, from Motorcyclenews.com



1) Capirossi 1:41.983. 2) Bayliss 1:41.993. 3) Biaggi 1:42.124. 4) Ukawa 1:42.258. 5) Rossi 1:42.276. 6) Gibernau 1:42.285. 7) Hopkins 1:42.579. 8) Aoki 1:42.609. 9) Jacque 1:42.643. 10) Checa 1:42.711. 11) Edwards 1:42.761. 12) Tamada 1:42.827. 13) Nakano 1:42.906. 14) McWilliams 1:42.985. 15) Barros 1:42.988. 16) Melandri 1:43.020. 17) Roberts 1:43.026. 18) Haga 1:43.269. 19) Hayden 1:43.474. 20) Pitt 1:43.889. 21) Hofmann 1:44.702. 22) McCoy 1:44.945.



Should be a great race!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,640 Posts
BTW, the weather should be fine...



Partly Cloudy, 78°/56°, 0 % chance of wet.



(Courtesy of the Weather Channel)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,597 Posts
Re: Spain, Final Qualifying Results:

Damn, you must be in the advertising business or something equally ridiculous, where all that matters is the bottom line. On revenues I can only guess the fraction of which H-D has brought in over the last decade or however long it's been, my hat is COMPLETELY OFF to the real men and women (hello Ludovica) at Ducati for putting not one but TWO bikes on the front row of the grid at the Spanish Freaking GP! Hooo...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Them Duc boys are some smart motha-

Mr. Burns, I must say I completely agree with you. It takes little more than greed, ambition, and extreme marketing savvy to accumulate hordes of mindless devotees like HD has, but it takes a racing legacy of lengendary proportions, an almost rabid passion for competition and something quite near a number of man-machine interface discernment geniuses to put together a machine and a team from scratch (relatively) that fast and get those kind of results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You miss my point, of course.

I'm not saying that H-D's decision to withdraw from superbike racing had anything to do with 9-11. I'm sure the decision had been taken long before, and had a little to do with the pathetic results their hapless and half-hearted effort had achieved. Mostly, I believe that H-D decided to stop racing because, as you point out, it wasn't making them any money. In my opinion, however, 9-11 should have *changed* their minds. It didn't because they are run by phillistines who worship, as you aparently do, the bottom line above all else--who don't see the importance of a difficult job well done, and who blithely abandon their position as standard bearer for the very Americans who support them in their ongoing marketing scam.

Pride. Thats all I want to see. Why is it that the Italians can build things better than we can? Why does it take them only three years to do something we've not yet done?

I'm guessing you own stock in Harley? Enjoy your money, loser. And if you don't own stock, what the f**k do you care about a bunch of rich ad men and their "business decisions?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Ummmm, not really.

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny, all the benefits of a classical education gone to waste. `tis a shame really.

The People did not intend to get into any sort of Ducati vs. Harley debate, but some folks do get fired up over all sorts of silly things. Please note that my earlier post said, "Ducati should be applauded for its racing efforts." Did that slip by you guys?

Mr. Moran just said that Ducati had all the "real men" working for them (which really, is now a bit too much man-on-man talk for me). The People was just trying to point out that Harleys' guys were better business men.

Ducati has better R&D guys and a far greater commitment to racing than Harley (assuming Harley has any commitment to racing at all...). But Ducatis are based on racing (duh, just stating the obvious here for the dim ones) and without that to hang their hat on they'd just be an Italian Buell. Is The People a fan of Ducati? Damn straight, however Ducati is having problems selling bikes in the good ol US (hence the management change). With all the racing heritage and success why aren't folks lining up to buy these bikes? As a side note (not that any of you care) The People, if he had his druthers, would take an Aprilla over a Ducati (blasphemy!!) any day (took a Mille R for a quick spin the other day, thought it to be one terrific bike...).

Conversely, Harley has better management than Ducati (news flash???). And when did it get to be a bad thing, being successful? Each and every person here wants the best for themselves, their families and their businesses. The ability to have enough to provide the finer things (maybe like getting junior a shiny new motorcycle...).

As for Mr. Moran's comment about pride, do you really believe the guys down on Juneau Ave. don't have any pride? Puuuulease, that's ridiculous.

So as we all know and will agree Harley got its ass handed to them, took their ball and went home. Harley probably knew it was going to be the laughing stock for pulling out of racing, but guess what? Their core audience didn't, and still doesn't care about racing. Daytona is a prime example. Half a million motorcycle riders converge for a week every year and most probably don't even know that races are running (`cept of course for the dirt track, but I digress). Guess all the leather ass-less chaps' stores keeping them too occupied...

Say what you want about Harley, the riders, the machines, the marketing, the money -- it doesn't matter as The People would wager to guess that every other motorcycle manufacturer on the planet wishes they were as successful as Harley. Each wishing they had Harley's problem of being "too successful."

As for The People being a Harley-stock owning loser... My portfolio is as deverse as my garage.

-The People
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
Let's not get off target by worrying about HD. What we should all do is take our hats and helmets off to the buys at Ducati. Then those of us who can should support Ducati's racing efforts by buying one. It's good to see one company that doesn't race because it's good for marketing. Ducati doesn't race to sell bikes; they sell bikes to pay for their racing. Long live their passion, and long live the greatest marque in motorcycling.



Vlad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ummmm, yeah, you did.

I never said H-D aren't good businessmen. But then I was never talking about 'business.' I'm talking about racing. Whenever I get into this discussion with my Harley buddies, the theme quickly and inevitably turns to "balance sheets" and "demographics" and "core ridership"--and "assless chaps" for some reason. I know why you always want to talk money, but what is it with you people and the assless chaps?

Anyway, a proper 'classical education' would include a look at H-D's storied racing tradition, a traditon that encompasses both dirt track and pavement, a tradition that has been shamefully abandoned by the current crop of assless chaps running the Motor Company.

Men race. Men don't quit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
Re: Spain, Final Qualifying Results:

read an interview with chris carr, he said the HD racing effort was ridiculous. they tried to "engineer" the perfect bike, and expect any rider to hop on it and ride.

whats funny is you can have a company like Ducati, who not only are strating to look good financially, but also know how to win a race.

I bet HD put more money into its AMA sbk program than Duc has put into its Gp bike. that is just sad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I would think that Ducati's advertising budget is their racing budget, and that would make them the Ferrari of motorcycles. But that did not happen by chance, they understood that they would live and die by their racing success, and that is motivation. H-D's results have no correlation to their racing - at least for the last 50 years or so, so they decided to spend their money elsewhere, it's only good business decision. It is nice to talk about commitment, perseverance, and not quitting, but this gets too close to executive ego trip. Remember that the management team and the board at H-D have a legal obligation to do what is best for their shareholders (fiduciary duty). They can make mistakes - not everybody is perfect, like me - but continuing down a path that does not create value for the company after it has become clear, is irresponsible. I would no go so far as to place H-D management team on a podium (in lieu of a rider ), though. They did find themselves with no competition and the right products, just in front of a market tidal wave. To their credit, they did not screw up and rode it well, but there is a good part of luck in that management brilliance.



That said, Ducati did and is doing a fantastic job, and it's great for the race and for the sport that someone can challenge Honda
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Valid comments all, jfgilbert, and, aside from your comments about H-D's racing history, I agree with your assessment of H-D's business situation and the fact that their management has a responsibility to its shareholders. However, I would submit that the crux of the VR1000 debacle was not a matter of H-D "continuing down a path that (did) not create value for the company." Rather, it was a matter of their making a decision to embark on said path, then not exercising the due diligence necessary to have a reasonable chance of success.



For many reasons, I followed the VR1000 effort very closely over its trajectory. The nature of that effort has been pretty thoroughly chronicled, so you don't have take my word for the fact the it was poorly conceived, poorly executed, under funded, and pretty much doomed from the start. How's that for fiduciary responsibility? I'm no business executive, but I feel confident in my belief that, once a business decision is made, every reasonable step should be taken to ensure its success. H-D management took no such steps and, in fact, left the effort to whither on the vine for at least its last three years in the intense glare of media scrutiny. Not too smart, but perhaps to be expected given the current management's basic ignorance of the demands and nuances of roadracing competition.



Anyway, some here have characterized the decision to race as somehow not a valid business decision for H-D, a mere "executive ego trip." I disagree. I feel that there is a vast and growing untapped market for a competent, modern American sportbike (and, please, don't get me started on Buell). The beauty of the situation for H-D is that entry into that market would in no way damage their position in the market they currently enjoy and, if they priced the bike correctly, would mean a younger customer base for H-D, something that would probably serve it well in the future. But a successful racing effort is essential to success in that market, a fact to which Ducati and the Japanese can attest.



Finally, aside from all the business and management talk, wouldn't it be great to see an American motorcycle compete successfully against the World's best, even if only on its home turf? Why should we not be able to achieve that success? We have some of the best engineers in the World, right? Harley Davidson makes a ton of money, right? They just published their quarterly report. Apparently, they're flush with market success, a virtually unstoppable juggernaut of leather-tasseled, assless-chapped business acumen. Maybe they could use some of that cash to launch a campaign, both to restore some pride to a tarnished name and to open up a new market for their business.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top