Touring DC on a Hog
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Re: How about just a more perfect union?
Incredibly expensive for government? Where do you think the government gets it's money? It is interesting that you see state sponsored education as the panacea for our problems. State sponsored education was invented by the Prussians to better guide its citizenry, and to crank out better soldiers. Only a free enterprise system would create competition for the best teachers, as any state run system is tantamount to the typical Soviet five year plan. VWW
Incredibly expensive for government? Where do you think the government gets it's money? It is interesting that you see state sponsored education as the panacea for our problems. State sponsored education was invented by the Prussians to better guide its citizenry, and to crank out better soldiers. Only a free enterprise system would create competition for the best teachers, as any state run system is tantamount to the typical Soviet five year plan. VWW
Re: How about just a more perfect union?
Nope not a teacher. Thinking about getting the credentials though. Wouldn't mind being an English or History teacher. California's beauracracy is a killer though. I'll have to go back to school for a year or two to get my credentials.
You're right about the lawyers. As a law school dropout I know how you feel.
Nope not a teacher. Thinking about getting the credentials though. Wouldn't mind being an English or History teacher. California's beauracracy is a killer though. I'll have to go back to school for a year or two to get my credentials.
You're right about the lawyers. As a law school dropout I know how you feel.
Re: How about just a more perfect union?
I'm not sure I agree with the free enterprise system, though I am sure you have valid points especially in terms of competition for the best teachers. Though a product of California's lowly public school system myself, I still believe in the promise and potential of public eductation. What worries me, about public schools as well as privatized education through a free enterprise system, is the move away from liberal education towards vocational education. Sure we all need skills to survive in the job market, but I would much rather not train our kids to simply be cogs in the system. I would much rather not see our education system be a training ground for corporate slaves. I would like to see the emphasis return to critical thinking and analysis. Education should not be about regurgitating information you are force-fed, rather it should be about challenging that veracity of that information. More time and effort should be spent on the epistemological side of the equation.
What a state run system, I believe, is meant to do is, is attempt to ensure a level academic standard. There are already tremendous discrepencies in the quality of education from rich county to poor county. Facilities, materials, budgets for honors and AP programs, etc., but I imagine the divide would only grow if education became a for profit institution. Vouchers? That's like trying to put a bandaid on a gaping wound. The average familiy's dollars are already stretched thin, I can only imagine the problems associated with having to pay $10,000 a semester to have just one of your kids go to a good "free enterprise" system school.
It is in the national interest that we should seek a better educational model. It's not just about ensuring our future generations are competetive in the job market, but that they are well-reasoned, critical-thinking, members of an informed and educated body-politic. It is for the good of our country and our government.
Too few vote, too few give a damn, too few can begin to understand the complexities of the world in which we live in. Too many swallow whole the propaganda of the the 30-second soundbyte. Education will help solve this problem.
I'm not sure I agree with the free enterprise system, though I am sure you have valid points especially in terms of competition for the best teachers. Though a product of California's lowly public school system myself, I still believe in the promise and potential of public eductation. What worries me, about public schools as well as privatized education through a free enterprise system, is the move away from liberal education towards vocational education. Sure we all need skills to survive in the job market, but I would much rather not train our kids to simply be cogs in the system. I would much rather not see our education system be a training ground for corporate slaves. I would like to see the emphasis return to critical thinking and analysis. Education should not be about regurgitating information you are force-fed, rather it should be about challenging that veracity of that information. More time and effort should be spent on the epistemological side of the equation.
What a state run system, I believe, is meant to do is, is attempt to ensure a level academic standard. There are already tremendous discrepencies in the quality of education from rich county to poor county. Facilities, materials, budgets for honors and AP programs, etc., but I imagine the divide would only grow if education became a for profit institution. Vouchers? That's like trying to put a bandaid on a gaping wound. The average familiy's dollars are already stretched thin, I can only imagine the problems associated with having to pay $10,000 a semester to have just one of your kids go to a good "free enterprise" system school.
It is in the national interest that we should seek a better educational model. It's not just about ensuring our future generations are competetive in the job market, but that they are well-reasoned, critical-thinking, members of an informed and educated body-politic. It is for the good of our country and our government.
Too few vote, too few give a damn, too few can begin to understand the complexities of the world in which we live in. Too many swallow whole the propaganda of the the 30-second soundbyte. Education will help solve this problem.
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1,538 Posts
A Teacher?
Oh yeah, Bobby is just what we need teaching our children; an aspiring screenwriter, amateur horticulturist and teacher who dropped out of law school and wants free beer and "greens" for our children.
In all seriousness, Bobby is a good guy, but let's face it; if he can't even figure out that I'm not actually that "right-wing Libertarian wacko" that I teased him as, then I don't think I want him molding and assessing the academic potential of any offspring that might happen to spring from my ample loins.
Oh yeah, Bobby is just what we need teaching our children; an aspiring screenwriter, amateur horticulturist and teacher who dropped out of law school and wants free beer and "greens" for our children.
In all seriousness, Bobby is a good guy, but let's face it; if he can't even figure out that I'm not actually that "right-wing Libertarian wacko" that I teased him as, then I don't think I want him molding and assessing the academic potential of any offspring that might happen to spring from my ample loins.
Re: A Teacher?
Speak about not being able to see tongue-and-cheek humor. I know you're not a wacko, and I do know you to be a damn good person and fairly intelligent to boot, but I like to tease you too. I mean, dude, it's fun. You can trade barbs with the best of them, so why not? Of course, you leave yourself to be easy fodder at times, but I would be remiss if I didn't take aim at those moments. You cheeto humping freak.
America would be rather fortunate to have me as a teacher. If ever I have the opportunity to mold and assess one of your offspring, you can be assured that your child will have a teacher dedicated to inspiring their intellectual curiosity and helping them reach their fullest potential. My job would never be to ingrain them with my beliefs, but rather to help them develop the critical analysis necessary to form their own. I hope you know me well enough to realize that.
Speak about not being able to see tongue-and-cheek humor. I know you're not a wacko, and I do know you to be a damn good person and fairly intelligent to boot, but I like to tease you too. I mean, dude, it's fun. You can trade barbs with the best of them, so why not? Of course, you leave yourself to be easy fodder at times, but I would be remiss if I didn't take aim at those moments. You cheeto humping freak.
America would be rather fortunate to have me as a teacher. If ever I have the opportunity to mold and assess one of your offspring, you can be assured that your child will have a teacher dedicated to inspiring their intellectual curiosity and helping them reach their fullest potential. My job would never be to ingrain them with my beliefs, but rather to help them develop the critical analysis necessary to form their own. I hope you know me well enough to realize that.
Joined
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1,538 Posts
Good Job
Excellent Post, that was a well-stated and logical argument from a reasonably moderate viewpoint. Either you're maturing, or you've stepped-away from the "greens" for a couple hours.
Next assignment.... explain the merits of the opposite side of your own viewpoint and then show how those merits don't outweigh the deficiencies caused by the total package. Might I suggest; the Bush Administration's Foreign Policies, their effect on international relations and the impacts they have on our domestic citizenry.
-Sean (your favorite whacked-out Limbaugh blowing, wannabe Republican Intern, whose actual political leanings you still haven't figured out.)
Excellent Post, that was a well-stated and logical argument from a reasonably moderate viewpoint. Either you're maturing, or you've stepped-away from the "greens" for a couple hours.
Next assignment.... explain the merits of the opposite side of your own viewpoint and then show how those merits don't outweigh the deficiencies caused by the total package. Might I suggest; the Bush Administration's Foreign Policies, their effect on international relations and the impacts they have on our domestic citizenry.
-Sean (your favorite whacked-out Limbaugh blowing, wannabe Republican Intern, whose actual political leanings you still haven't figured out.)
Re: How about just a more perfect union?
Currently in Kalifornia a good private school costs between 3,000 to 6,000 dollars per year. compare that to the 10,084 dollars we throw at each student through our woefully inadequate public education system. If you make government smaller you would eliminate the high taxes necessary to fund inefficient bloated government bureaucracies. There by freeing up funds for the average family to choose the education of choice for their children, whether it be vocational, or pure science. Vouchers are just another government wealth redistribution plan fraught with all of the negatives of government control and inefficiency VWW
Currently in Kalifornia a good private school costs between 3,000 to 6,000 dollars per year. compare that to the 10,084 dollars we throw at each student through our woefully inadequate public education system. If you make government smaller you would eliminate the high taxes necessary to fund inefficient bloated government bureaucracies. There by freeing up funds for the average family to choose the education of choice for their children, whether it be vocational, or pure science. Vouchers are just another government wealth redistribution plan fraught with all of the negatives of government control and inefficiency VWW
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3,415 Posts
Re: I am an artiste
I've enjoyed reading you two's debate. You're both much more eloquant in putting your thoughts to words than I. My own political leanings run towards FDR and the New Deal, IE the government exists to serve and provide for the people, everyone contributes a fixed amount of their income, and everyone has access to needed social services such as education health care and assistance.
Probably not a popular position these days..One nice thing about our currant administration is that by the time they're through enough people might have woken up and we can return the country to a little left of center, where it seems to work the best for all, not just the top 10% income brackets.
I've enjoyed reading you two's debate. You're both much more eloquant in putting your thoughts to words than I. My own political leanings run towards FDR and the New Deal, IE the government exists to serve and provide for the people, everyone contributes a fixed amount of their income, and everyone has access to needed social services such as education health care and assistance.
Probably not a popular position these days..One nice thing about our currant administration is that by the time they're through enough people might have woken up and we can return the country to a little left of center, where it seems to work the best for all, not just the top 10% income brackets.
Joined
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17,448 Posts
Re: I am an artiste
What the freak are you talking about dude? Bush is one of the biggest social spenders since the other next greatest social spender... Nixon. Where do idiots get the idea that republicans don't blow huge throwaway wads of cash to buy votes, just like the democrats?
What the freak are you talking about dude? Bush is one of the biggest social spenders since the other next greatest social spender... Nixon. Where do idiots get the idea that republicans don't blow huge throwaway wads of cash to buy votes, just like the democrats?
Joined
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17,448 Posts
Re: I am an artiste
Ha ha. Critical comments about "self-serving" libertarians would be more impressive if there weren't a single liberal who didn't also intend to personally benefit from all the govt largesse stolen from people who actually work for a living.
There is nothing noble about greed, no matter how much selfserving PR is spewed to justify it.
Ha ha. Critical comments about "self-serving" libertarians would be more impressive if there weren't a single liberal who didn't also intend to personally benefit from all the govt largesse stolen from people who actually work for a living.
There is nothing noble about greed, no matter how much selfserving PR is spewed to justify it.
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