Motorcycle Forums banner
21 - 40 of 70 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Aprilia went through a similar problem last year. They bought Moto Guzzi and threw all their money at the new Mille and the "baby mille" (I hear they stopped production on it) only to find out that Italy changed the helmet laws, requiring 50cc scooter riders to wear helmets. This turned potential scooter buyers off, killing sales on Aprilia's bread-and-butter. They were going bankrupt, but sold out instead. Ducati didn't get the winning bid- they must not have wanted Aprilia that bad.

I don't know how bad Triumph is doing, but I can't imagine they're as stable as Aprilia was. Ford buys every auto manufacturer under the sun, maybe... I can see it now: The 2006 Escort-powered Triumph Rocket IV.

Now THAT would be a novelty motorcycle.

I imagine Triumph will pull through this just fine though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Re:

I remember a while back a post about Ducati having a losing quarter and all the I-told-you-so'ers went in to a shark like feeding frenzy about how it was proof the company should of dropped those worthless twins, put Pierre Terblanche in a guillotine, got rid of the ridiculous desmodumbic valve design, etc. Next quarter Ducati put up a 23% profit.

Seems like Triumph and the Rocket are getting a similar beat down now. I know the fire was in 2002 but I imagine the effects are still being felt. Take the fire out of the picture and I wonder if there would still be a loss. The motorcycle business is extreamly competitive and exspensive to be in. If you’re not selling snowmobiles, jet ski’s, guitars, generators, cars, etc. also it makes it that much tougher. I'm not saying Rockets and Supersports were a good business venture but only that more time is needed to tell. Let's see how the 2005 lineup sells. They've taken the hit for the R&D costs so now it's time to see if the 2005 bike sales make it worth while.
 

·
The Toad
Joined
·
17,461 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

No one seems to understand that it's congress that spends the money and creates the inflation. For that matter the democrats could simply have filibustered all of Bushie's profligate spending... and they should have. I just might vote for them if they had the balls to. But they wanted all of that extra social spending, didn't they?

Nah. It's easier to do nothing, let the economy go south and then pretend that it's someone else's fault.

Blame the Pres. Blame the other party. Yadda yadda yadda. They are ALL to blame. All the republicrats.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,452 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Is the Rocket an English version of the Honda Rune or that BMW cruiser? Why is it that the only Japanese cruisers which are great sellers are clones of Harleys (style wise)? Valkerye discontinued etc. Don't cruiser buyers demand traditional styling? Just a thought.. That's why I think the Rocket is doomed. Perhaps you and sarnali like it cause you are big guys who can handle bikes like the VMax. Have to say when I sat on the Rocket I was intimidated by its size and weight.

Longride you were right on the 600 thing and I was definitely wrong on that. I really doubt that a 650 will do any better. Perhaps if it was a Triple. Doesn't the Ducati 749 sell cause it is a twin versus the inline 4s? Seems like Triumph has to set it sights on being only a niche player thus should make a small triple to distinguish it from the inline 4s...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Whoa, whoa.

Triumph lost a million bucks this year? So what? At their cash flow, "losing" five million...or for that matter, making five million profit, is not significant dollars. They're not going out of business, they're just not as profitable as they should be.

A warning sign, maybe, but not a big deal in the business world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
There Will Wlways Be an England! And, Probably a Tuiumph.

Triumph not using the triple, as its signature engine, has always boggled my mind. And, attacking the Japanese, on the 600 front, was something akin to the Charge of the Light Brigade, (But, Hey! They're Brits! They do stuff like that!).

Hindsight is 20/20 (and, who looks at their own a$$ anyway). But, a 750 triple would probably have set the world on fire, rather than the alarm clock, on snooze, like the 600 Daytona. Just the sound of the triple makes grown men cry, and audiophiles use it for a reference source. So, cash could have been grabbed, hand over fist, probably without a Daytona Triple ever being moved off its kick-stand. And, though the new 650 has me planning a trip north, to visit my closest dealer this Spring, I’d probably push a team of dogs, through a lake-effect storm, if that same dealer had a 750 triple right now.

As for the Rock III, it’s damn near the size of Moby **** and, to me, almost as boring. But, some people still romanticize the adventure of whaling, so if they’ve got the cash, let them sharpen their harpoons (at least, Green Peace won't get in a snit).

The jewel in the crown of the Kingdom of Bloor is the Triumph Speed Triple. The Speed-Trip is such an awesome bike that even Triumph couldn’t keep it from selling – though, God knows, they tried – with mutant headlights – and colors from Hell. If there’s one bike that lives up to Triumphs former glory, it has to be the Speed Triple. It’s spoke of in awe, and whispered-delight…Until, someone gets cheeky and Cranks-Up the Beast! Then all Hell breaks loose, and you have to shout to be heard over the engine’s wail. And, that’s probably good, because the sound of your heart-beat might scare you to death. It might not be the fastest, and DAMN it ain’t pretty, but it’s got attitude to burn...Like Churchill, with a cigar and a glass of gin in his hand.

So, Triumph lost a Million? So, What! Big Deal!

The Brits are all nuts, and it ain’t killed ‘em, yet.

After all, they got us; we’re Loony as Bats.

And, Americans will buy Crazy, as long as it runs Faster-than-Hell, and doesn't break down.

So, take heart! There will always be an England - and probably a Triumph - as long as the the immortal words - Whoa! Dude! - are still in the hearts of every American (But…Hey…What do I know…I own a Honda).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
The new 680 Triple

Did anyone see the new 680 Triple? It's in MCN but not in the news section. There was a link to this new "game" where they'd show you a part of a bike and ask you what it is. The last picture looked like nothing I saw, and the answers went like CBR, R6, ZX, so I thought it was perhaps a modified Japanese bike. In the end all answers were wrong, it said it was the new 680 Triple, to be featured in the latest MCN. Now I know MCN is not to be trusted but this picture looked real. The link is not there today by the way. If the new triple is indeed true, I believe it would be a smart move for Triumph to move away from the 600s and play the supersport game on its own terms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
Is Paul Really Dead? Is the Triple Alive? Who Knows?

Even if it is a hoax, the furor it causes will probably get Triumph a lot of free press. And, it might even convice Triumph to build a small triple, if they haven't decided already.

BTW, can anyone tell me off-hand what the AMA's limit is, for triples in super-sport racing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
it's a halo vehicle...

i don't think the rocket will sell well, however it may draw enough attention to triumph that the exercise could be worth it...

on the other hand, maybe the thing sells like hotcakes, you're right...time will tell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,754 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

One million? Not a big deal. I'll second (or third) the other posters who have also pointed this out. It's probably just a cyclical loss related to new development costs and the aforementioned weaker dollar. It's a cause for minor concern, but certainly not a cause for gloom and doom.

Since we've been so conditioned by public companies and the stock market to think that if a company has a momentary downturn, doesn't show a profit for two quarters in a row or, God forbid, shows a small loss for the year, that the ship is sinking. Please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Triumph has probably been a bit marginal for a while now. Lots of competition out there.

Sure, Rocket 3 cost them some, but a manufacturer of sporting motors needs a flagship...something to draw the eye and imagination to their product. Most have one,

this is Triumphs. Sure, people will buy within their niche..but the rocket 3 will draw attention to the Tirumph line...and to that extent is a success.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
Rocket might have a niche

A lot of folks are knocking the Rocket, and I can't say that I have seen one on the street. But I do see a fair number of Valkyries so there does seem to be a market segment for the lumbering- behemoth models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Triumph makes some great bikes, but here in the Northeast have few dealers. I'd buy a Tiger in a second but the nearest shop is 50 miles from my houseand hundreds of miles from where I do most of my riding. If they just expand the dealer networks they could do a lot better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Gotta give 'em credit for originality. And, the 3rd Rock is supposed is supposed to go and handle really well.

I haven't seen one in person, yet. I'm just hoping its a case of, Substance over Supposition. Otherwise, I'm hoping it comes with an awfully, large tarp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,465 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

The real stat to look for in long term corporate viability is growth in market share. Of course cash flow has to be maintained. Profitability ain't cash flow. This is sort of like calling up your doctor, saying you feel warm and then asking for a diagnosis of what is wrong. You might be catching malaria and you also might be sitting too close to the heater. Neither you nor I will get to talk to the bean counters in the know. Wish Triumph well. But somebody really needs a kick in the seeds for that Rocket III.
 

·
Super Duper Mod Man
Joined
·
10,479 Posts
Re: The new 680 Triple

What Triumph could use is another bike that uses the heritage of the name. Give us a razor sharp 750 triple. Cafe style, and the name could be ummmm.........let me see......Trident! Yes, Triumph, give us a bike from back in the glory days and people will respond just like they did to the new Bonneville. Drop the 600 four already and go with this one. Forget the "680" anything. Triumph 750 Trident Triple. Has a ring to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

Regarding the 650cc Daytona, the local Triumph dealer stated that this will be replaced next year by the 680cc TRIPLE metioned in a post above. The word is that everything Triumph makes will be either a parallel twin or a triple. I think Triumph learned their lesson.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Re: Triumph Seeing Red Ink

$1 million certainly doesn't sound like a lot.

However seeing how discounted triumphs are, how many left overs are on the floor, etc.. does seem a little worrisome.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Rocket 3. It really seems too far out to be successful over the long run. It is kind of like the Boss Hoss, it is kind of cool but most of us probably don't want one. It will continue to get triumph lots of press but I doubt we'll be seeing a gang of guys riding them in a pack like harleys or supersports.

Aside from the R&D for the rocket 3 no one has mentioned how far out it is manufacturing wise. There were plenty of magazine articles that mentioned that triumph had to build a whole new assembly line that is closer to a car assembly line than a typical bike assembly line since the engine design is so far out. This is probably not the case for bikes like the valkryie or gold wing since they have more cylinders and smaller parts. For example it was mentioned that the Rocket 3s crank, cases, etc.. are so heavy that triumph had to build/buy machines to lift them into place on the assembly line whereas for most bikes they can be moved around by hand. Unless >2 liter bikes become incredibly popular it is hard to imagine how triumph will ever be able recover it's investment in such a specialized factory. Someone like Honda or Kawasaki is so big that they can probably do this and suck up the loss, but then the VTX and the Vulcan 2000 are apparently not as extreme as the Rocket 3?

The Boss hoss of course avoids a lot of this as they just buy the motors pre-assembled and then they are apparently set up to be a niche builder?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,415 Posts
Re: Tax on profits

Triumph motorcycles is a small part of Bloor Holdings overall. Given the tax structure in Britian, being able to show a loss is very favorable in terms of the corporate tax he pays. This is a red herring, and in no way reflects Triumphs viability as a company.

At the Seattle IMS, the Rocket 3's had a pretty steady line of people checking them out, and sales have been strong according to the guys I deal with. I see them on the road from time to time, If I was in the market for a cruiser I'd definately check one out. My tastes run more towards the Bonneville and Thruxton, as befitting an aging cafe` racer such as myself, though I'd find a Tiger hard to resist for all the logging roads around here.

I wouldn't read too much into this guys, new models incure development costs, and John Bloor is no fool. After refocusing the 650 Daytona from direct competittion with the Japanese supersports and more towards a fun middleweight sportbike the pressure's off to upgrade every three months as the competittion does. Reviews are favorable for this bike, and with the rumered 680 in the wings sales should continue to increase.

I feel confident owning a Triumph, my Trophy is proving to be the best bike of the many I've owned and I have every intention of buying another one. Personaly I don't want the same bike everyone else has with the same catalog moto-bling tacked on. If that's what your after there's lots of other choices for you.
 
21 - 40 of 70 Posts
Top