[38092]

Why is this so bad?

One day of riding on a two stroke makes more pollution than years of riding a four stroke. Don't ask me for numbers, I don't have them.

Does the elimination of Two Strokes as recreational vehiclals eliminate fun? Not hardly. Yes, four strokes are heavier, and don't have the same insane power two strokes do, but keeping trails and rec areas open to 4 strokes is preferable to banning of all off road vehicles.

We as motorcyclists must take responsiblities for what, where, and how we ride. Throwing our hands up in arms over an enviromentally vaild ban is like a kid having a temper tantrum because someone took a toy away from him.

Yes, my fellow riders, the era of 2 strokes is over. That said, does anyone have an H2 Kawi they want to sell?

 

[ogre23]

And as there are a billion more SUVs than 2-stroke motorbikes, the numbers work out a thousand to one in favor of 2-stroke bikes. Don't ask me for numbers to back up my wildly inaccurate claims, I'm just pulling these statistics out of my arse.



Give me a goddamn break. It's ridiculous, that's why it matters and is a bad thing. In addition to that, it outlaws even private sales of the vehicles. That means that the value of Joe's 2001 2-stroke just dropped like a rock because if he needs to sell it, he has to sell it out of state.



I simply dispute the claim that a 2-stroke is that much worse than a 4-stroke, especially in terms of the number of them that are used in daily life.



I'm particularly opposed because recent technological innovations are about to make the 2-stroke a viable, no-more-polluting than 4-stroke option. Direct gasoline injection will allow 2-strokes to not require mixing of the lubrication oil with the fuel charge. Lets face it, legislators are people I wouldn't trust to engineer a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, let alone deal with technological issues.



-Kawazuki

 

[15052]

I have a fuel injected 2 stroke water craft, which produces 76% less emissions than a carb engine, and meets EPA 2006 standards! There are some REAL numbers.

 

[soloyosh]

It says if your 2-smoke was built before June 1, 2004 you can resell it. So Joe's 2001 2-smoke value would probably benefit from the ban (less supply like banshee values in CA when Yamaha was going to stop selling them). Not that I support the ban... Just a different point of view. I dont like the fact that if I wanted a 2005 CR250R to ride on my own property or on a closed course. Id have to drive to another state (if I lived in Mass).

 

[Lowrez]

Private Party 2-stroke sale

Actually, you'll still be able to sell that 2001 privately because it was made before 2004. It also doesn't seem to have any effect on bikes bought outside the state and then brought in and used on private property.

I agree that picking on two-strokes seems like a waste of time due to their aggragate impact versus, say, diesel trucks. Maybe we should pass some laws to deal with all of those super polluting coal buring, steam powered cars. I mean, there are probably one or two left in operation and they're just filthy!

 

[Fat]

'Bout Time

What a great idea. Time to ban the filthy two smokes until manufacturers fix their pollution issues.

If you've ever been in an area where a bunch of snowmobilers are hanging out you'll have to agree. Those things stink.

There is no great reason not to pass this now that there are viable alternatives - the new four strokes that are becoming readily available.

 

[nokneedragin]

I believe that Bimota tried to bring a 250 2 smoke in with direct injection and some other fancy gadgets, but they could not meet the EPA test. Honda has been refining the direct injection systems for years and they have never even tried to meet the reg's to get a 2 smoke bike on the road. If any company could do it, you would think Honda would. Hell I'd love to get a modern street legal sport bike with a 2 smoke. But I'll just have to be content with my dirt bike.

 

[nokneedragin]

On another note

I have run into some people who have grey market 2 strokers from Europe. They first titled them in Georgia, then transfered the title to the home state. Aparently Ga. has some lax reg's (or people) and allows this to happen.

 

[Pacer]

Re: Why is this so bad?

The pollution put out by all the 2strokes in Mass. is so minimal compared to one factory that it is negligible. I refuse to feel guilty for a dirtbike when big business has the money to lobby to make their factory's pollution legal.

As far as the power, a 450 4stroke makes more power than a 250 2stroke (same class) with out adding much weight. That will also come down as time goes by. If we have to lose one thing atleast we get to replace it with a comprable product.

Don't get too complacent though, 4strokes are louder than hell, and people are still trying to kick us off of public land. The fight will continue, I suggest joining the only lobbiest we have (the AMA), even if they are kind of screwed up. The NRA is screwed up to, but atleast I can still have a rifle.

I think it is a bit of a shame, but I have come to except the beginning of the end for 2strokes. That said, I pass on the H2 and want an RZV500 instead.

 

[Pacer]

Re: 'Bout Time

Stink??? Are you kidding me. Well maybe if they are using chainsaw oil. High octane gas and quality oil smell sweet as a flower to me.

 

[35661]

This will just open the door to ban all (even 4 stroke) off highway vehicles. As an ex Masshole I can tell you that is how it works there. Mass has

already closed virtually all riding areas. Now NH is getting pressure due to the increased traffic from all the trail riders who travel north.

If you value your right to ride 2 strokes in any state you would go to the AMA site and start fighting the good fight.

 

[3833]

Good riddance

The manufacturers resisted 4-strokes until the environmental bans started happening.

Now you have Yamaha shoehorning R1 engines into snowmobiles, jetskis, and 20 foot jetboats, Kawasaki making ZX-12R powered Jetskis, Honda with Yet Another engine in their Jetskis and VTEC V6 engines for outboards.

2 strokes should die.

 

[Pacer]

The Bimota had lots of poblems, but the big one was getting useable power. Direct injection is great in marine motors where the RPM is some what constant, but bikes RPM's change constantly and they just couldn't get it down. The whole project pushed Bimota into bankruptcy. R.I.P. V-Due.

 

[seruzawa]

The ultimate intention of the greenies is to close all rural areas completely to all recreational use. They achieve this incrementally sometimes even using rational reasons, but in any case the intention is to keep us in the cities. It is senseless to compromise with these people. It's seldom a compromise anyhow. A compromise requires each party to give a little.



These "compromises" with the greenies always seem to result in the greenies getting something and us losing something. The funny thing is that the elitists on their horses are at least as damaging as ATVs (anyone who has shared backpacking trails with the horsie crowd knows this). Horses tear up the trails badly and leave piles of 'presents' everywhere for the hikers to avoid. Yet horse bans are never proposed. Why? Because greenies like horses. Never mind that horses are foreign species to North America.





Another laugh is the mountain bike crowd. The slickrock trails of Moab survived decades of motorcycle use, but a few years of crowds of idiots dragging their bicycles' rear brakes down the rocks had resulted in severe destruction of these trails. Yet you see loads of idiots driving around Moab with their 4 Runners and Jeep Grand Cherokees with their "Save the Whales" stickers, obviously convinced that they are protecting the environment. What hypocrites.



You don't have to dig very deeply into the greenie psyche to dee just how virulently anthrophobic they are.

 

[646]

Re: Why is this so bad?

If you own a motorcycle (street or off-road) or own a firearm and are not a memeber of the AMA or the NRA, then the only one screwed up is you. These two organizations are the only folks working to protect your right to enjoy these sports. (stepping off soap box now)

 

[crankin500]

Hippocrites in action...

I can see why MA would ban 2-strokes. After all, there is about one 2-stroke per thousand SUV's. I think I burned about 20-25 gallons of fuel through my dirtbike last year. How many SUV's used that little?

 

[piinob]

Re: Why is this so bad?

Well said, well said.

 

[Abe_Froman]

Re: Good riddance

Yes and that R1-powered snowmobile is a tank that wieghs around 150 pounds (no joke) more than competing sleds. If you get it stuck it requires heavy equipment to free.

 

[acecycleins]

To all the tree hugging, leftist that are scared about the enviromental impact of two stroke machines I say "Bite Me". The numbers of commercial desiel driven machines (which represent significant pollution output) vastly out number two stroke machines on our wonderful planet. Who's complaining about them. Seems to me that in a republic that is supposed to represent all of the people, the few that whine hard enough seem to get their way much too often. Anyone that believes our planet is dying because of two stroke machines must have thier heads examined. We've been mowing lawns, riding gocarts, running generators and dozens of other things for decades. It wasn't until the 80's (about a century worth of two strokes) that people started whining. If no one noticed, Harvard University did an enviromental study recently that "bunks" all the enviromental wacko's arguments. In basic terms, our planet runs in cycles where thing heat up and cool down over several centuries at a time. In the 1700's things were warmer than now. In the 1800's (when record keeping became slightly more efficent) things were cooler. Warm is good- don't like it move to Greenland. So to all I say "Long live the two stroke." Until the Feds. srew it up for all of us that are just having fun.

 

[rsheidler]

Since it is many years since I have been in the state (or is it commonwealth) of Massachusets (other than passing through the airport), I cannot comment on whether 2-stroke offroad vehicles have any significant impact on the air quality in the state.



In any case, I have a problem with banning a particular engine configuration rather than limiting pollution itself. If you are trying to reduce pollution from off-road vehicles, establishing emission standards makes more sense, and doesn't lock out development of cleaner 2-stroke technology.