[backroadbandit]

I ride to work every day, and many days ride for work, delivering stuff. Most days I take the KLR, instead of the Bandit 12 or the R1100Rs. It's just easier to hop on and use, gets 50 mpg, and is a superior traffic bike. Can also smoke junior riders on their latest tech machines, very easily in turns. Drag races the dressers, too, and smokes 'em!

 

[Coldrider]

Having owned a Nighthawk and having ridden a friend's 883, I believe that their placings should be reversed. The Nighthawk gave me no problems, and if not for a trip to Sturgis the 883 would have more vertical miles than horizontal. With the HD craze, I recommend everyone buy stock in whichever company produces loc-tite.

 

[056]

MZ's Rock!

A great starter bike, a great race bike, and a great bike for the mature rider who wants to work on his riding skills rather than show off how brave he is by twisting his throttle to the stop on his superbike.

I loved my Sport, it taught me everything I know about riding fast. It was lacking in the power department, but if I rode with a slower crowd, I'd probably still have it. (i.e., those who don't routinely exceed 100 MPH.)

Never have I ridden such a perfectly set-up stock bike. The spring and damping rates were perfect for both street and track, and the brakes just plain kick ass. Stainless lines stock, and before anyone else was doing it.

But hey, MO did review the MZ, as did 2Wf. I guess MZ doesn't advertise enough, or something.

 

[SamBlob]

The largest selling, longest running bike in history...

...is the Honda Super Cub. If we're talking world history, that is.

 

[SamBlob]

Re: Value Bike Feedback - Random thoughts

1. Noted already, but how did you manage to switch the positions of the Nighthawk 750 and the Sportster 883 between the previous test and this one, when neither bike has changed (in five years...)

2. Obviously this was a case of one bike per manufacturer. Suzuki has the GS500E (more in the Buell''s class than the other bikes here) and the Bandit 600 (which would have beaten the Nighthawk in the previous test if the availability of parts and accessories for the then brand-new design wasn''t an "issue"). IMO, there are several comparos that could have been done:

a: Micro-cruisers (Honda Rebel vs. Suzuki GZ250X vs Yamaha Virago 250),

b: middleweight cruisers (Yamaha V-Star vs. Kawasaki Vulcan 500 vs. Honda Shadow VLX vs. Suzuki Savage vs. H-D Sportster 883),

c: beginner standards (Buell Blast vs. Suzuki GS500E vs. Kawasaki Ninja 500) and

d: Frugal Fours (Kawasaki ZR-7 vs. Honda Nighthawk 750 vs. Suzuki Bandit 600)

e: V-Twin Fun! (Suzuki SV650 vs. Ducati Monster 600 Dark)

f: Suzuki DR650SE vs. Kawasaki KLR650

3. For those who want reliable budget transportation (like me), the Nighthawk 750 wins hands down. I realize, however, that I am in the minority on this...

4. I miss the MZ Silver Star! *snif*

 

[SamBlob]

Re: Well, if you want to get technical...

I believe we are talking "motorcycles" here, and perhaps you should consider that the western world includes Western Europe, where a full-sized motorcycle is considered to be one larger than 125cc and there is still a thriving 50cc market, that descendants of the C50 Super Cub still participate in.

 

[SamBlob]

Re: Horsefeathers...

The problem with that, in this context, is that it isn't really a value bike. Even if you can get one at MSRP, you'll still have to get the parts to address that part of the package you don't like. I don't know if I would need a gel pad for the Nighthawk, but I'm almost sure I would for the Sportster.

If I could afford an XL1200S Sportster Sport, I'd try it out. It looks like what a basic Sportster + Harley Tax would be for me anyway. But it's not a value bike the way a Nighthawk would be.

 

[SamBlob]

Re: Ya got that right...

I'll accept that...

HOWEVER: If a Nighthawk will "be worth less than half its original price in a few years even if still in cherry condition" then the thing to do is use a little judo and let the bike's depreciation work for you. Nighthawks are relatively hard to kill, so if you can buy used and get a mechanic to check the condition of the bike before you buy, you can have yourself a good, reliable bike that won't depreciate much (more).

 

[CycloneRider]

OK Mr. English Professor, read the sentence again.

You're correct, "It's" is a contraction for "it is" but it's also a contraction for "it has". May I suggest you buy a thesaurus and a dictionary, then reference them (skipped grammar in elementary school, eh?) BEFORE you commit yourself to verbal diarrhea . Confucius say, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

 

[SamBlob]

Re: What is your point?

Hondabill:

1. I'm not sure the post you were replying to was trying to say that the Enfield Bullet was made in China; the Bullet statement and the China statement were probably meant to be seperate.

2. In addition to the BMW clones, China makes lots of different bikes, including Jialing, which is built in partnership with Honda.

Sportsters may be the '57 Chevy of bikedom, but be assured, the Honda Super Cub is the VW Bug.

 

[SamBlob]

Re: Value Bike Feedback - Random thoughts

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!

I will read the two reports again to see if the brakes were mentioned in either one.

More thoughts since:

1. If I remember correctly (I haven't re-read the "Frugal Flyers" article recently), the original test was biased somewhat toward ease and cost of operation and maintenance, while this one is just about how the bike feels to the testers.

2. Personally, I think I'd rather pay the warranty fee (depreciation) than the Harley tax (accessories). The Harley seems to be for those who like wrenching, or are good at it; I guess I'm more "reliable transportation" oriented. Maybe I'm just dull, or maybe my old bike just needs too many repairs...

3. Another reason for me to re-read the current report is to try and remember if any of the current bikes has shaft drive. Maybe the V-Star Classic inherited it from the Virago? The H-D and Buell have belts for sure, the KLR650, Nighthawk and SV650 all have chains. One wonders how a brand new GS850G or VX800 would fare in this test...one will have to wonder 'coz no such thing exists.

 

[SamBlob]

Re: Consistency noted after re-reading...

Nighthawk 750:

Easy to ride, smooth power delivery (both articles), smooth clutch, swift gear changes (2000 Valuebike Shootout)

Long distance comfort hampered only by lack of fairing (both articles) but otherwise good thanks to tall gearing (both articles), well-padded, comfortable seat (Frugal Flyers), good seating position, and long wheelbase (2000 Valuebike Shootout)

Long range; 87-octane compatible (2000 Valuebike Shootout)

Suspension O.K. but could be better (both articles), rear suspension undersprung and prone to bottoming out under heavy load (Frugal Flyers), spongy feel, bias-ply tyres (2000 Valuebike Shootout)

Front brake not very powerful (Frugal Flyers)

Powerful, but in a bland way (both articles)

Indestructable if given routine maintenance (both articles)

Low insurance and maintenance costs (Frugal Flyers)

XL883 Sportster:

Screams for Screamin' Eagle parts (both articles)

Easy to manoeuver, thanks to low seat height, upright riding position and drag bars (both articles)

Adequate brakes, but could be better (BOTH ARTICLES! Hmm, maybe more improvement needed?), good engine braking (Frugal Flyers)

Solid overall feel, unique "Harley" feel (both articles)

Controls are stiff and heavy, but do the job well (both articles)

Suspension inadequate for highway travel (2000 Valuebike Shootout), sloppy damping (Frugal Flyers)

Not too intimidating for new riders, upgradeable with experience (2000 Valuebike Shootout), first by converting to 1200cc and then by adding performance parts (both articles; also both articles mention the performace parts twice, as this review does)

No depreciation (Frugal Flyers)

Low servicing and maintenance costs, but no centrestand (Frugal Flyers)

__________________________________________________

Apart from the above comparisons, there is this telling comment on the Yamaha V-Star Custom's brakes in the "2000 Valuebike Shootout":

The brakes are pretty good and only get edged out by the likes of the SV650 and CB750.

Please note that this infers that the V-Star's brakes were better than the Sportster's improved brakes, but were not as good as the (CB750) Nighthawk's.

And, yes, the Yamaha V-Star has a shaft.

 

[BuellBoy]

Re: Horsefeathers...

If money really isn't an object, you really should try a Low Rider or one of the new Softails, then. HARDLY a two-wheeled Buick like the Ultras. And they are a TON more comfortable than the Sportsters. If you are absolutely enamored of the XL engine, then you should experience it in REAL motorcycle: a Cyclone, Lightning or Thunderbolt. The Sportster is a poor excuse for a motorcycle no matter WHOSE logo is on the tank.

 

[wingdave]

Re: Another 100+ ZR-7's

Thanks philip, registering right now..

I agree, I think I forgot just how much FUN riding a motorcycle is (vs. comfortable on my wing) Until I scooted around on a little inline 4..

the more I looked at a new bike, the more "over" cruisers I became.

Now I'm torn between a ZR (s) or a bandit 1200 or 600 (s)..

Choices..

Either way.. I'm re-energized after riding for 15 years, 4 different bikes..

See you on the pegs!

 

[wingdave]

AlL ABOARD FOR THE ZR-7

Testify SQUID!

Give it to us good MO..

Put your names below mine average poster..

We'll call this a.. what do you.. how you say..

petition?

 

[CBR1000F]

Whoops, you're right... I was thinking of the ZX-7R, not the ZR-7. I would also be interested to know why they didn't include that bike in the test. Or why they haven't tested it at ALL. It's been getting awesome reviews from paper and e-zines.

 

[CBR1000F]

Re: So this was a good start

Suzuki DIDN'T forget to make it. It's called the TL 1000.

 

[056]

Where are my posts?!?

I posted praising and reccomending the MZ Skorpion as a terrific budget first bike/racebike/sportbike, and MO deleted it! What was so offensive about that?

 

[SamBlob]

Re: Consistency noted after re-reading...

Well, I have ridden a Nighthawk, but not that one, and I can say Universal Japanese Motorcycle, but I've never ridden one. I learned to ride on a 1983 Honda Nighthawk 450 (P-twin), which is still the biggest and most powerful bike I've ever ridden. My current ride (when it works) is a 1988 Honda CM200T TwinStar. I rented a Yamaha 80 step-through for two days on vacation in 1998 and I rode a friend's Honda C50 for about 50 yards once. Those are all the bikes I've ever ridden, and I am certain that, with the possible exception of the Nighthawk 450, the Buell Blast would leave ALL of them for dead!

As for the Sportster, not even the die-hard Harley fans deny that they shake HEAVILY; they chalk it up to character (BTW, "Frugal Flyers" suggests checking the headlight and taillight bulbs regularly as they tend to get shaken to death quite often). OTOH, Nighthawk articles and owner comments, regardless of the forum or publication, almost unanimously refer to the Nighthawk's dependability. Magazine articles often call it boring and characterless. Maybe I am too, it sounds like good transport to me!

One last note: The motorcycle police where I live ride Nighthawk 250s, Nighthawk 750s, and Kawasaki Police 1000s. Back in the '80s they used to ride TwinStars like mine.

 

[SamBlob]

Re: AlL ABOARD FOR THE ZR-7

I'm in! I want to read what MO has to say about the ZR-7. Especially when compared straight up against the Nighthawk 750 and the Bandit 600!