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CBR1000
Maybe Honda Canada are a little less arrogant than Honda USA. However, they did only have 1, compared to Kawi's 5 or so zx-10r's and Yammy's 3 R1's. I don't think anyone even noticed the GSXR1000, not it's year I guess. But leave it to Suzuki to come back in 05 or 06 with something far more ridiculous.
The Honda didn't feel as light between the knees as the other 2 (none of them had fuel of course) but still felt very small, and like the 954, made you feel as though you were hunched over the front wheel. (which may be more effective in the turns). THe Kawi felt positively TINY while the R1 felt long and pointed... though that may have been my erection.
Maybe Honda Canada are a little less arrogant than Honda USA. However, they did only have 1, compared to Kawi's 5 or so zx-10r's and Yammy's 3 R1's. I don't think anyone even noticed the GSXR1000, not it's year I guess. But leave it to Suzuki to come back in 05 or 06 with something far more ridiculous.
The Honda didn't feel as light between the knees as the other 2 (none of them had fuel of course) but still felt very small, and like the 954, made you feel as though you were hunched over the front wheel. (which may be more effective in the turns). THe Kawi felt positively TINY while the R1 felt long and pointed... though that may have been my erection.
V-rod also costs nearly twice as much. Kawasaki will sell every one they make. I'm not a cruiser guy but I'd love to try one out.
Don't forget, all those done-up used ones can also do 9 and 10 second quarter miles. Just ask their owners.
In Canada...
V2K $18 999.00 MSRP
V-Rod $25 349.00 MSRP (solid paint w/no accessories)
Considering MSRP alone the Harley is a third again as much...
THis doesn't take into account the typical HD dealer gouging.... I looked at some V-Rods at H-D of Calgary this summer which were listed at 32k plus tax. And the average Kawasaki dealer here will probably let you "jew them down" a bit.
Say you negotiate a price of 18500 for the Kawi, plus 200 for assembly. Total is $20009.00 with 7% sales tax.
At HD of Calgary you pay 32k plus 200 for assembly (?) plus tax the total is $34454.00.
(34454-20009) / 20009 = .072
Now you're paying a 72% premium for the V-Rod. Cool bike, but still worth it?
OK "twice as much" was out to lunch but if you were to actually go and buy them you'd still pay a pretty substantial premium for the Harley.
And that doesn't take into consideration the cost for the required "Authentic Screaming Eagle H-D Merchandise Tough Guy Biker Costume" (tm) **tattoos and goatee sold separately**
V2K $18 999.00 MSRP
V-Rod $25 349.00 MSRP (solid paint w/no accessories)
Considering MSRP alone the Harley is a third again as much...
THis doesn't take into account the typical HD dealer gouging.... I looked at some V-Rods at H-D of Calgary this summer which were listed at 32k plus tax. And the average Kawasaki dealer here will probably let you "jew them down" a bit.
Say you negotiate a price of 18500 for the Kawi, plus 200 for assembly. Total is $20009.00 with 7% sales tax.
At HD of Calgary you pay 32k plus 200 for assembly (?) plus tax the total is $34454.00.
(34454-20009) / 20009 = .072
Now you're paying a 72% premium for the V-Rod. Cool bike, but still worth it?
OK "twice as much" was out to lunch but if you were to actually go and buy them you'd still pay a pretty substantial premium for the Harley.
And that doesn't take into consideration the cost for the required "Authentic Screaming Eagle H-D Merchandise Tough Guy Biker Costume" (tm) **tattoos and goatee sold separately**
"but what Harley has NO other manufacturer has in the v-twin world."
-yes their bikes make people think they're cool.
-yes their bikes make people think they're cool.
which one?
I do have an inkling to do such a thing... I can't decide. The R1 is pure sex and will probably have more power and less weight than the honda.... but on the other hand I think the Honda might be a more "forgiving" bike to its rider, what with that damper, the forward position, and the super-long swingarm. I'm also looking at a used rc-51 though.
I do have an inkling to do such a thing... I can't decide. The R1 is pure sex and will probably have more power and less weight than the honda.... but on the other hand I think the Honda might be a more "forgiving" bike to its rider, what with that damper, the forward position, and the super-long swingarm. I'm also looking at a used rc-51 though.
More competitive market there I suppose. Canadians can't afford Harleys!
Why don't you do this scientifically and show us how much torque that fz1 is making at the SAME RPM. SHouldn't that be the constant?
There is only one catch; and that's catch 22.
If the american market wanted a light, sporty, agile cruiser (which wouldn't be a cruiser at all) then they would be plentiful and common. It's simple supply and demand.
If the american market wanted a light, sporty, agile cruiser (which wouldn't be a cruiser at all) then they would be plentiful and common. It's simple supply and demand.
You made my point for me... "at the same road speeds will be turning different rpms."
Wouldn't it be more comfortable doing 100mph @ 3500RPM instead of 8000? Easier on the machinery too.
Wouldn't it be more comfortable doing 100mph @ 3500RPM instead of 8000? Easier on the machinery too.
Re: The truth uncovered
Vote John Galt
Vote John Galt
A lot of the torque multiplication/gear reduction factor is cancelled when you consider that 7 inches of sprocket is turning 20 some inches of tire and wheel.
No but it changes the force being applied to the road. You can't turn 44 inch boggers on your 4x4 without a lot more gear reduction. Leverage.
THis thread is getting too long
Let's agree to disagree.
I'm really only arguing with you for the sake of debate. You are right, peak torque values don't neccesarily reflect directly on performance. A Cummins Diesel may produce 500 foot pounds of torque at 1500RpM (or whatever) but that doesn't make that truck the fastest accelerating vehicle. The only way you could make a high-torque/low rpm engined vehicle accelerate quickly would be if you were able to rapidly decrease the gear reduction factor while the engine maintained its speed. (ie with a CVT). But we don't have a transmission that can withstand those stresses.
Still, what I am saying, is that a motor like the V2K's, with a massive low-rpm torque peak, offers useable performance without wringing it out. Sure, you could have a six cylinder 250cc engine turning 24000 RPM which TECHNICALLY transfers more torque to the pavement but that torque isn't as ACCESSIBLE. I have dragraced and beat 600cc supersport motorcycles with my heavier and less powerful VFR, but it takes a more skillfull rider to exploit the power that a peaky motor like a 600 offers.
Your facts come from a more educated position than mine. I'm not an engineer, just a lousy business student. But I know a bit of sh!t.
A bike like the V2k isn't at the cutting edge of technology, but I bet it would be a gas to ride.
Let's agree to disagree.
I'm really only arguing with you for the sake of debate. You are right, peak torque values don't neccesarily reflect directly on performance. A Cummins Diesel may produce 500 foot pounds of torque at 1500RpM (or whatever) but that doesn't make that truck the fastest accelerating vehicle. The only way you could make a high-torque/low rpm engined vehicle accelerate quickly would be if you were able to rapidly decrease the gear reduction factor while the engine maintained its speed. (ie with a CVT). But we don't have a transmission that can withstand those stresses.
Still, what I am saying, is that a motor like the V2K's, with a massive low-rpm torque peak, offers useable performance without wringing it out. Sure, you could have a six cylinder 250cc engine turning 24000 RPM which TECHNICALLY transfers more torque to the pavement but that torque isn't as ACCESSIBLE. I have dragraced and beat 600cc supersport motorcycles with my heavier and less powerful VFR, but it takes a more skillfull rider to exploit the power that a peaky motor like a 600 offers.
Your facts come from a more educated position than mine. I'm not an engineer, just a lousy business student. But I know a bit of sh!t.
A bike like the V2k isn't at the cutting edge of technology, but I bet it would be a gas to ride.
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