Vulcan 2000 Teaser
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Re: Is Motorcycle Online going to change its name to Cruiser Online?
My brother has Aspberger's syndrome so I'm quite familiar with this phenomena, and I think I qualified my statements by saying that they were my opinions....which of course implies that I am aware of the existence of other opinions that I don't share.
All I'm saying is that (IMO) it's more interesting to read about a contest between parties when there's a clearly definable winner (the combination of a number of factors [weight, power, suspension performance, etc...] being combined to produce a single hard number: lowest lap time.)
There shouldn't be much argument on the statement that the latest sportbikes are technologically more advanced than any cruiser by any manufacturer, and in fact the latest sportbikes represent the latest advancements in motorcycle technology. Why review a Pentium 2 when the Athlon 64 is 1000 times faster?
The winner of a motorcycle race isn't determined by a panel of judges, it's determined by whoever crosses the finish line first.
My brother has Aspberger's syndrome so I'm quite familiar with this phenomena, and I think I qualified my statements by saying that they were my opinions....which of course implies that I am aware of the existence of other opinions that I don't share.
All I'm saying is that (IMO) it's more interesting to read about a contest between parties when there's a clearly definable winner (the combination of a number of factors [weight, power, suspension performance, etc...] being combined to produce a single hard number: lowest lap time.)
There shouldn't be much argument on the statement that the latest sportbikes are technologically more advanced than any cruiser by any manufacturer, and in fact the latest sportbikes represent the latest advancements in motorcycle technology. Why review a Pentium 2 when the Athlon 64 is 1000 times faster?
The winner of a motorcycle race isn't determined by a panel of judges, it's determined by whoever crosses the finish line first.
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Re: Is Motorcycle Online going to change its name to Cruiser Online?
Gotcha.
When it comes down to it, all motorcycles are purchased for subjective reasons. Sure, choppers aren't very functional, though since I've built my own in the past I know they can be built to perform safely on the street. Still the people buy them more for aesthetic reasons. Aesthetic to them at least. And there's no denying a lot of creativity does occur on that front.
There is the fact, undeniably, that the best performer for race purposes is the fastest bike around the track. It is also more and more likely that these bikes will become nearly as unsuitable for street as radical choppers if they continue down the road of reducing flywheel effect and abrupt two-strokelike powerbands. The seating positions, fatigue and visibility issues make these bikes poor street choices, IMHO.
MO does a pretty good job of covering different bikes for a diverse and cantankerous group. But it appears to me that the real revolution is in naked street bikes. We've gone from only a couple of choices a few years ago to a plethora of naked offerings, many that perform nearly as well as racereplicas without the daily usability and touring issues.
Gotcha.
When it comes down to it, all motorcycles are purchased for subjective reasons. Sure, choppers aren't very functional, though since I've built my own in the past I know they can be built to perform safely on the street. Still the people buy them more for aesthetic reasons. Aesthetic to them at least. And there's no denying a lot of creativity does occur on that front.
There is the fact, undeniably, that the best performer for race purposes is the fastest bike around the track. It is also more and more likely that these bikes will become nearly as unsuitable for street as radical choppers if they continue down the road of reducing flywheel effect and abrupt two-strokelike powerbands. The seating positions, fatigue and visibility issues make these bikes poor street choices, IMHO.
MO does a pretty good job of covering different bikes for a diverse and cantankerous group. But it appears to me that the real revolution is in naked street bikes. We've gone from only a couple of choices a few years ago to a plethora of naked offerings, many that perform nearly as well as racereplicas without the daily usability and touring issues.
This rag reaks. They are more concerned with making sure there is something new to read everyday then content and quality. Then you have some of the MO writers actually saying nasty things about readers they must not care for. When my membership expires that will be it for me.
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Re: Is Motorcycle Online going to change its name to Cruiser Online?
Well there is another one totally missing the point.
The point is, if sportbikes (fanstastic thingies, if you like that sort of thing) improve from 144hp to 155hp, its like yeah big difference.
Its like if you get a 155$ babe or 144$ babe in Tijuana. You look for some other differentiating factors if you know what I mean.
Meanwhile what is happening in the cruiser front is that things go from 74 lb-ft to 147 lb-ft. So if you are in Tijuana (ok so I have a creeping feeling this analogy sucks).
- cruiz-euro
Well there is another one totally missing the point.
The point is, if sportbikes (fanstastic thingies, if you like that sort of thing) improve from 144hp to 155hp, its like yeah big difference.
Its like if you get a 155$ babe or 144$ babe in Tijuana. You look for some other differentiating factors if you know what I mean.
Meanwhile what is happening in the cruiser front is that things go from 74 lb-ft to 147 lb-ft. So if you are in Tijuana (ok so I have a creeping feeling this analogy sucks).
- cruiz-euro
Concerning the new tendency for the existence of high displacement cruisers. I for one applaud those manufacturers participating in this latest trend. In the past cruiser have been somewhat boring offerings.
Now the consumer has more choices which is always a good thing. On todays roads the ability to maintain a comfortable speed of 70 mph is an essential element of motorcycling safety. Also the ability to accelerate from 70 to 90 at a pace far superior to the average car could also be considered an element of safety. These new offering will address those concerns. These new offerings have the ability to perform those functions two up. If I had quite a lot of two up riding in my future I would certainly consider these new engine configurations. Some other interesting facts is that the manufactures will make a higher profit per unit with these bikes than smaller displacement units. That being said. I still think the manufactures could produce a smaller displacement machine say around 800cc also cable of a consistent 70 mph speed as well as good 70 to 90 mph roll ons.
Now the consumer has more choices which is always a good thing. On todays roads the ability to maintain a comfortable speed of 70 mph is an essential element of motorcycling safety. Also the ability to accelerate from 70 to 90 at a pace far superior to the average car could also be considered an element of safety. These new offering will address those concerns. These new offerings have the ability to perform those functions two up. If I had quite a lot of two up riding in my future I would certainly consider these new engine configurations. Some other interesting facts is that the manufactures will make a higher profit per unit with these bikes than smaller displacement units. That being said. I still think the manufactures could produce a smaller displacement machine say around 800cc also cable of a consistent 70 mph speed as well as good 70 to 90 mph roll ons.
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Re: Is Motorcycle Online going to change its name to Cruiser Online?
Well, keep in mind that the top level of racing, MotoGP, went from actual 2-stroke bikes to 4-stroke, for reasons of improved power tractability and (arguably) applicability of the engineering to production bikes.
The revolution in choices is evident in the naked bikes, yes, though they are the direct trickle-down beneficiary of pure sportbike engineering. Perhaps it's time for racetrack comparisons of the naked bikes? There's always a couple floating around the track when I'm there anyway. Might as well find out which upright goes the best.
Anyway, I understand what you're saying about the streetability of sportbikes, and I sure wouldn't want to ride my R1 cross-country. But then again----I wouldn't want to take ANY bike cross country. Rolling along on the center of the tire for miles on end (at less than 50% over the speed limit) simply has no appeal for me. When I think of riding a motorcycle, all I really want to do is go all-out all the time. In fact most of my street riding these days is limited to a half-dozen or so favorite roads within a 20-mile radius of my house. If I'm not going to be scraping the pegs I'd rather leave the bike in the garage and find something else to do. Ahh the recklessness of the young single male.
Well, keep in mind that the top level of racing, MotoGP, went from actual 2-stroke bikes to 4-stroke, for reasons of improved power tractability and (arguably) applicability of the engineering to production bikes.
The revolution in choices is evident in the naked bikes, yes, though they are the direct trickle-down beneficiary of pure sportbike engineering. Perhaps it's time for racetrack comparisons of the naked bikes? There's always a couple floating around the track when I'm there anyway. Might as well find out which upright goes the best.
Anyway, I understand what you're saying about the streetability of sportbikes, and I sure wouldn't want to ride my R1 cross-country. But then again----I wouldn't want to take ANY bike cross country. Rolling along on the center of the tire for miles on end (at less than 50% over the speed limit) simply has no appeal for me. When I think of riding a motorcycle, all I really want to do is go all-out all the time. In fact most of my street riding these days is limited to a half-dozen or so favorite roads within a 20-mile radius of my house. If I'm not going to be scraping the pegs I'd rather leave the bike in the garage and find something else to do. Ahh the recklessness of the young single male.
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Re: Cruisers aren't used that way.
Well, I would guess that most Cessna owners would like to have a supersonic plane but economics dictate that they buy what they can afford.
To play the devil's advocate for a moment----airplanes are designed mainly with two main considerations----function and cost. I would guess that they are purchased primarily with those considerations in mind, not simply the way they look, or their "personality", or the way they strike the eye of the buyer. Also---all other things being equal, the heavier, slower, less powerful, less agile plane will generally not be the one that costs more yet is in higher demand.
Well, I would guess that most Cessna owners would like to have a supersonic plane but economics dictate that they buy what they can afford.
To play the devil's advocate for a moment----airplanes are designed mainly with two main considerations----function and cost. I would guess that they are purchased primarily with those considerations in mind, not simply the way they look, or their "personality", or the way they strike the eye of the buyer. Also---all other things being equal, the heavier, slower, less powerful, less agile plane will generally not be the one that costs more yet is in higher demand.
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I am by no means an expert on this subject, but I read your post Michael, and I tend to think that there's a flaw in your logic.
You're assuming, or more correctly let me say that I -think- you're assuming, that a given bike will be able to spin the gear reduction necessary to equalize your RPM comparison.
I don't think it is very easy to spin that type of gear reduction... you eat up a lot of energy, right?
I could be way off (I suppose I should go do some research now
), but somehow, someway, I think that the companies building these bikes have already figured out the most advantageous gear ratios, and use them.
I realize the point of your comparison is to 'equalize' the two for purposes of illustration, but relate that to 'as implemented on the bike' for me?
Am I just horribly wrong?... I'm willing to be wrong (and probably am wrong), but at this point, this thing doesn't add up for me. I just want to further this discussion is all, and I'm not picking nits... I really want to know what's up.. tell me what I'm not understanding.
Would it further the cause to just measure the bike's engine output at 1:1? (whatever gear that happens to be??) .. and put big + little sprockets that are as close as possible, and/or account for tire-size diffs by staggering same?
-James
You're assuming, or more correctly let me say that I -think- you're assuming, that a given bike will be able to spin the gear reduction necessary to equalize your RPM comparison.
I don't think it is very easy to spin that type of gear reduction... you eat up a lot of energy, right?
I could be way off (I suppose I should go do some research now
), but somehow, someway, I think that the companies building these bikes have already figured out the most advantageous gear ratios, and use them. I realize the point of your comparison is to 'equalize' the two for purposes of illustration, but relate that to 'as implemented on the bike' for me?
Am I just horribly wrong?... I'm willing to be wrong (and probably am wrong), but at this point, this thing doesn't add up for me. I just want to further this discussion is all, and I'm not picking nits... I really want to know what's up.. tell me what I'm not understanding.
Would it further the cause to just measure the bike's engine output at 1:1? (whatever gear that happens to be??) .. and put big + little sprockets that are as close as possible, and/or account for tire-size diffs by staggering same?
-James
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878 Posts
Re: Cruisers aren't used that way.
Though you're correct, the argument isn't neccessarily circular. One can choose not to carve canyons based on a reason other than the limitations of their motorcycle. Like, for instance, because one is an old fuddy-duddy. LOL j/k
Though you're correct, the argument isn't neccessarily circular. One can choose not to carve canyons based on a reason other than the limitations of their motorcycle. Like, for instance, because one is an old fuddy-duddy. LOL j/k
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