We don't need no stinking training!
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"You may be on another brand of motorcycle, but someday, you'll be on a Harley," Lessard says. "If you're on two wheels, I'm interested in making you a better rider."
The only training I have ever had was from roadracers. I don't believe anyone else is qualified to tell someone else how to ride a motorcycle well. Especially not some dude selling Harleys.
State Sen. Bob Letourneau has apparently never ridden a motorcycle if he thinks "pressing the handlebars in the direction they want to go" is the proper technique.
The only training I have ever had was from roadracers. I don't believe anyone else is qualified to tell someone else how to ride a motorcycle well. Especially not some dude selling Harleys.
State Sen. Bob Letourneau has apparently never ridden a motorcycle if he thinks "pressing the handlebars in the direction they want to go" is the proper technique.
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The real fact is that almost all states make it so easy to get a motorcycle license it's embarassing. First, as much as people hate this idea, graduated licensing needs to be implemented in all states. Want a start on that? Steal England's licensing system. Next, make sure all states fund the MSF. Georgia charges us motorcyclist for the fund, yet they don't actually fund the MSF. Where's the money, Sonny? Making the MSF affordable is what draws riders. If the price is right then people will sign up. Then the MSF HAS to get trainers. It's a non-profit. Pay some guys a real world wage and trainers will flock in. If your MSF course went from $60 to say $85 wouldn't you still pay? Here in GA the course is over $250 and private courses "Rider's Edge" is closer to $350. Is Rider's Edge non-profit?
I could go on but you get the point. Oh, one last rant. If the ABATE guys would get off the stupid helmet laws and turn that concern to REAL rider safety then maybe their membership would grow and the rest of the world wouldn't think they're a bunch of yahoos.
I could go on but you get the point. Oh, one last rant. If the ABATE guys would get off the stupid helmet laws and turn that concern to REAL rider safety then maybe their membership would grow and the rest of the world wouldn't think they're a bunch of yahoos.
NH State motto: "Live Free or Die!" Hopefully, the powers that be can convince riders that rider education is essential to enjoying the sport and that training does not infringe on their "freedom" but enhances it. But for the love of God/Buddha/Zeus/The White Witch, don't pass a law!
"If the ABATE guys would get off the stupid helmet laws and turn that concern to REAL rider safety then maybe their membership would grow and the rest of the world wouldn't think they're a bunch of yahoos."
Obviously with a statement like that, you haven't the slightest cluse what A.B.A.T.E. stands for. Go look it up.
Obviously with a statement like that, you haven't the slightest cluse what A.B.A.T.E. stands for. Go look it up.
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Few things are more frightening than elected officals getting "concerned" about a problem so that they can "solve" it. While training is an excellent (and the best) solution you must never forget that the govt's preferred method of dealing with accident rates is "passive restraint". You can bet that horsepower limits, speed governors and such are sure to be proposed if the rates don't go down. Anyone who remembers the Carter Administration's Joan Claybrook should shudder at the thought.
The "solutions" that the bureaucrats come up with can be mind-boggling. M/C seat belts for example. No, I am not making that up. Linked braking was another mandate that was ready to be implemented until, fortunately, Carter lost the election and Claybrook went off to raise daisies.
The "solutions" that the bureaucrats come up with can be mind-boggling. M/C seat belts for example. No, I am not making that up. Linked braking was another mandate that was ready to be implemented until, fortunately, Carter lost the election and Claybrook went off to raise daisies.
Unfortunately ABATE *doesn't* stand for "a Brotherhood For Training Enforcement".
I'll financially and politically support ABATE the instant they repeal their idiotic "no mandatory helmet" stance. "training and education" is a disengenuous platitude to mask their "we don't want to wear no stinkin' helmet" BS.
Sorry, you WILL wear your helmet and you WILL LIKE IT! Nitwits!
I'll financially and politically support ABATE the instant they repeal their idiotic "no mandatory helmet" stance. "training and education" is a disengenuous platitude to mask their "we don't want to wear no stinkin' helmet" BS.
Sorry, you WILL wear your helmet and you WILL LIKE IT! Nitwits!
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I am truly sorry for offending ABATE members but the fact is that I am a supporter of ABATE. My problem may be singled out to the state of GA but as far as I can see there is not REAL direction for the group outside of trying to repeal helmet laws. I know what the name means but it is not reflected in the current problem of educating motorcyclist. If you would have read my text in context I was not slamming ABATE as a whole I was conveing the fact that people outside the organization see the group as yahoos because of the semi-annual rides to the capitols of our states to complain about helmet laws. Why don't they do semi-annual rides to make the licensing laws tougher so the roads become safer. Or put up a b**ch about the fact that MSF courses aren't more widely offered.
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Who said "training enforment"? All I was hoping for was an acknowledgement of the fact that they should be "supporting" state sponsored training more vigorously.
There is also the factor that people who do voluntary safety training are going to be the people who are concerned with safety and are going to be people who ride safer on average.
People who do not wear helmets and disregard MSF training will be, on average, higher risk-takers.
Do not expect the problem to go away (entirely) with obligatory MSF training. I support voluntary MSF training.
People who do not wear helmets and disregard MSF training will be, on average, higher risk-takers.
Do not expect the problem to go away (entirely) with obligatory MSF training. I support voluntary MSF training.
I'm probably alone on this, but after some limited involvement with MSF I'm starting to come to the conclusion that they're as interested in selling motorcycles and licensing new riders as they are in safety. Isn't Tim Buche president of both the MSF and MIC (motorcycle industry council)? Isn't the MIC's goals to promote the sales of new motorcycles?
I do believe training is a big part of the solution, and have been a huge fan of the MSF in the past, but wonder whether they're still capable of leading the training bandwagon in a credible way.
I do believe training is a big part of the solution, and have been a huge fan of the MSF in the past, but wonder whether they're still capable of leading the training bandwagon in a credible way.
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"I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help"
Feel better now?
The quickest way to decrease fatalities is to get Rightious Partyin' Bro re-entry and newbie riders to realize that you can drink 15 beers and ride a motorcycle, no matter what you saw on TV or read in CheeseyRider. If you eliminate the accidents that involve drinking from the statistics, motorcycle fatalities have decreased every year.
Abate and the other "Biker Rights" groups should be focusing on that, not trying to live up to some Hollywood Bad-Ass image.
Feel better now?
The quickest way to decrease fatalities is to get Rightious Partyin' Bro re-entry and newbie riders to realize that you can drink 15 beers and ride a motorcycle, no matter what you saw on TV or read in CheeseyRider. If you eliminate the accidents that involve drinking from the statistics, motorcycle fatalities have decreased every year.
Abate and the other "Biker Rights" groups should be focusing on that, not trying to live up to some Hollywood Bad-Ass image.
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134 Posts
Unfortunately, all of this is old news.
We all know the death rates are going up.
We all know the way to reverse this is implement euro-style graduated licensing, mandatory helmets, reduce moto-bar-hopping, etc.
We all know that American riders will never go for this in a million years.
The best thing Harley Davidson could do is start a massive publicity campaign to make rider training, ATTGATT, and riding straight look cool.
Lots of TV commericals about getting laid because you took lots of advanced rider training and wore a full-face helmet -- that would do the trick.
We all know the death rates are going up.
We all know the way to reverse this is implement euro-style graduated licensing, mandatory helmets, reduce moto-bar-hopping, etc.
We all know that American riders will never go for this in a million years.
The best thing Harley Davidson could do is start a massive publicity campaign to make rider training, ATTGATT, and riding straight look cool.
Lots of TV commericals about getting laid because you took lots of advanced rider training and wore a full-face helmet -- that would do the trick.
"Trained riders would know how to negotiate a curve and would resist the urge to brake, instead pressing the handlebars in the direction they want to go", Letourneau says.
Racing schools teach you how to go around a curve, faster. The training classes you take to get your license don't let you on the street. The reason 'trained' riders survive much better on the street is because they take riding more seriously.
Racing schools teach you how to go around a curve, faster. The training classes you take to get your license don't let you on the street. The reason 'trained' riders survive much better on the street is because they take riding more seriously.
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