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I've talked to a few motorcycle dealer-type people lately. Their experiences seem to confirm what many of us here probably already suspect: In this country, they only sell cruisers and supersports in any real quantity. Yes, some other naked/sports have done fairly well (SV 650, ZRX 11-2000, etc.), but still, the majority of people come for the big-and-hunkies or the race-reps. Not much in between.



Cruisers are cheap to produce and highly profitable. Supersports are image-machines that show off engineering prowess. Both are very popular.



Some people have even theorized that naked/sports have actually been somewhat buried because they could canabalize each segment. And I can see how. You can't justify charging $13 K+ for a naked and, therefore, can't make an enormous cruiser-like mark up. And the huge R&D costs in supersports mandate you sell as many of those--and crusiers with big mark ups-- as possible.



Of course that doesn't explain why the Honda 919, for example, is a sales-dud, especially when the big H sent so many here to sit on showroom floors. So I don't know if there's a conscious conspiracy or just a lack of real motivation. We need more exciting product in the naked/sport segment. It's worked in Europe. But we just don't have the same access to Ducati or Aprilia or MV or (enter any European maker except Triumph here) that the Europeans do. We need someone to make exciting-but-affordable product here. And we need them to make those bikes seem cool again. Just by the reaction on this site, there is evidence to believe in a sizeable untapped market.



Which is why I think an American manufacturer can make the naked/super-standard/sport segment cool and appealing again if they just take the proper approach. Hell, Harley made cruisers popular at a time when they were viewed as nothing more than quaint, obsolete oddities. Any takers? Victory? Indian?



Build it--and market it properly--and I have a feeling that many will come. And a goodly few may just trade in their Vulcan 1600's and R6s.

 

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Re: KPaul says

Internet boom. Ended four years ago. Was the biggest short term scam in history. Began during another President's term.

Enough said.

 

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"Get it. Cruisers out sell everything other category of bike here in the US. Your problem is you don't want a cruiser."



It wasn't always that way. And, as all things change eventually, it proabably won't stay that way.



Cruisers sell so much here because they're fashion statements. Fashion can be changed if someone, or some company, wants to try hard enough. A revolution could be started with as little as one unique product. The iPod is a decent, if not perfectly analogous, example.



The best example is Harley Davidson itself. Twenty years ago, Harleys were considered old, slow, dated and obsolete by almost everyone. And yet they started the whole cruiser revolution by convincing people that they were the alternative for the independent soul. No, they didn't introduce a radically new product. But it was unique by the standards of the day. And they made it cool to own one, and therefore, own a particular lifestyle. They changed the fashion of the American motorcycle scene.



An another example from Europe: The Ducati Monster. Ducati was smart enough to pick up on a grassroots motorcycling fashion statement. Big seller.



We now are reaching saturation in the heavy cruiser segment. Indian and E-H failed not only because of mismanagement but also because they were selling into a market that is already well served. We've got all of the Japanese manufacturers, Victory, the "custom" makers all battling for the scraps of a market that H-D has won hands down. The future may not be in producing more heavy cruisers. Some company will probably take advantage of that someday.



More choices are better for all of us. Resigning ourselves to the "cruisers and supersports can only sell here" mentality is resigning the power of the consumer. There are more than a few people here who would love to have a broader range of bikes in the U.S. If enough of us are heard, we might see a change.



I always tell newer riders that there are other options besides cruisers and supersports that they should consider. Fact is, most of them don't really even know that other bikes exist. If we keep insisting that other bikes can't sell here, that will be true in this country.



Oh, I'd also like to to point out (as some have already done) that the Bonneville is NOT a cruiser. It's a retro standard. I could also argue that the R3, while still a heavy cruiser, is unique to that segment in many significant ways.

 

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Re: KPaul says

Now I know how you can afford all of that exotic machinery in your garage.

 

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Re: Economics for dummies Take 10

Heh, heh. You are a robot, ya know.

Perhaps you can tell me HOW he did it? Explain to me how the President "created" this great economic expansion, oh great Economics guru.

Forget it, I already know the answer to that one. That's why there are three different posts here. You obviously have no idea what you're taking about and are running around the Web trying to find all of your little factoids. If you were such an authority, you wouldn't need to.

I especially love "more to come." That's great. I can't imagine how anyone could be so oblivious to start another argument without actually having an argument. You then have to interrupt yourself midstream and find more support for your "rationale." It's classic.

Classic lunacy.

The budget was balanced because the Republicans threatened to shut down the government.

If Clinton was successful in passing Hillary's national health care plan, it would have been much harder to balance the budget.

NAFTA. You should be against this, but, curiously, you never seem to mention it.

The Internet Explosion/Implosion. Almost everyone lost their asses on this, jobs were created and then destroyed. Investors stopped investing in tech afterwards. It had a negative effect almost everywhere in the economy.

You go ahead and keep believing this fantasy that the government will fix everything for you.

 

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Re: Economics for dummies Take 10

You know, I swear I was going to mention that. Funny that the mention of "socialism" tripped his switch. Telling too.

 

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Re: Economics for dummies Take 10

Oh, yeah, right. I forgot I'm an idiot.

Although, logically, if I'm accused of being an idiot by someone like KP, might that indeed make me the smartest person in the universe?

Let's ponder that.

 

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Oh...sorry to hear that.

 

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Re: He just married his momma

If we're talking in terms of economic systems, strict Communisim has never really existed. We use the term "Socialism" in general to describe a whole range of systems that incorporate a significant form of state-controlled redistribution of wealth. European nations tend to have more "socialistic" traits than we do.

On the political spectrum, the Soviet Union and China were far left, almost, but not quite true Communism (even they were smart enough to recognize that true Communism was unworkable). Great Britain in the 70's was a highly socialistic nation--"The Nanny State"--, but not even close to the USSR, and it was a huge disaster.

You must remember that we are really discussing an Economic system and not a social ideology. Many people don't understand that. Yes, we all want everyone to live full, rich lives. If I could wave a magic wand now and make it so I would. But giving a government the responsibility to do so has never seemed to work.

Highly socialist states rob people of incentive, ambition, reward and creativity. It's the unintended consequenses that are the killer.

But I still dig you, man. Keep flogging that Ninja.

 

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Re: He just married his momma

Keep thinking, my friend. Keep thinking.

But while you're thinking, here's something to occupy you: Start smaller. Don't flog yourself over not being able to save the entire human race. Do something to improve just one person's life. Teach a kid how to write, or maybe even ride a dirt bike (if you're so qualified), or anything that might help someone. If more of us took that attitude, we wouldn't need the government as caretakers. That's really the kind of socialism I think you believe in. I believe in it too.

Then go and write that screenplay that becomes a real, honest-to-god movie that puts people to work and makes a few bucks for everyone down the line. Or even if that never happens, do something productive. You will have an impact on many lives greater than you have ever imagined.

I lost my dad a little over a month ago. He was a good man. Not a saint, but a hardworking, intelligent, honest husband and father. I always looked up to him for being many of the things I will never be. And I questioned how a good person could just cease to exist. But then I heard from some of the people he helped during his life, a few stories about a few kind deeds, and I realized that he didn't cease to exist at all. In a very real sense, he's still here.

That's really what this country is about. And I agree sometimes it seems we've all lost our way, that materialism has consumed us. But materialism in itself is not bad--after all, without it we wouldn't have motorcycles, it's the lack of balance that seems to escape many of us. But there are good people still out there. Just be one of them and show the others the way.

Good luck, dude.

P.S. Don't ever cast Whoopi Goldberg for any of your films. Actually, I have a whole list.

 

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Re: Fathers

I appreciate the kind thoughts, Van. Sounds like you were luckier than most. Losing both in such a short period of time must be difficult. You have my condolences. Thanks again.

 

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The ZRX is a good choice. I have one (1100). Love it. In some areas they are hard to find used, though.



I've altered the riding position to make it sportier, but the stock position is very comfortable--a bit of a forward lean, but not at the expense of comfort. In fact a slight forward lean is supposed to be the best position, anatomically speaking. And that little fairing on the R model actually provides decent wind protection up to about 85 mph. With the low alloy bars on my bike, it works a little better. A Zero Gravity windscreen improves it a lot for about 65 bucks. The stock seat had to go--it killed me after about an hour straight of riding--but others find it comfortable--depends on the individual. I put a Corbin Gunfighter solo seat on mine--sooo comfortable and it looks much better than the stock seat.



The ZR-7s isn't a bad bike, just largely ignored. Good looking. It's a little sedate, but you can get them very inexpensively now, leaving some money for a few performance parts.



I found the Honda 919 to have a very comfortable riding position. More upright than the ZRX--too upright for me, but very comfortable nontheless. I just wouldn't want to be sitting that upright with absolutely no wind protection. An aftermarket fairing or windscreen is must if you're concerned about that. And there are TONS of leftovers around if you want to buy new.



The Tiger is a cool bike. I don't have any real experience with them. But I'm thinking about buying a Triumph myself. I love 'em.