XBRR Not Legal for FX?
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The article answers it's own question - if the XBRR is based on an an engine and frame form a current production bike it's legal for FX - I suspect that using the XB frame and a modified production engine meets that requirement. It's not street legal because they don't have lights, turn signals, dot rubber, EPA approved muffler etc.
In other words there is nothing to see here, move along.
In other words there is nothing to see here, move along.
Yea, I don't get the beef either. The Erion CBR was a $9000 streetbike when it arrived at Erion's shop in a box, but I'd bet the wheels never rotated even before the bike was completely stripped of most all factory parts. I wonder how much an FX CBR costs, including the bike price itself. Buell is trying to offer a raceready bike so that more folks will race them, just a marketing tool. I wonder if the Buell XBRR is FX ready out the box.
I think they are misreading the rulebook...
For rule purposes, this is probably considered an XB-9R: With the stock but strengthened chassis, a new swingarm (unlimited mods for air cooleds), whatever body work is desired, etc.
The rule for air cooled twins in Formula Extreme is basically unlimited modification to the engine, so this undoubtedly qualifies unless Buell REALLY screwed up.
http://www.amaproracing.com/prorace/pdf/RR 06 Rulebook.pdf
The only gotcha may be Chapter 1: E-2-H-2 (formula extreme homologation): But this would be OK as long as Buell says that the frame & engine started life destined for the streetbike.
I think Superbike Planet really jumped the gun here.
For rule purposes, this is probably considered an XB-9R: With the stock but strengthened chassis, a new swingarm (unlimited mods for air cooleds), whatever body work is desired, etc.
The rule for air cooled twins in Formula Extreme is basically unlimited modification to the engine, so this undoubtedly qualifies unless Buell REALLY screwed up.
http://www.amaproracing.com/prorace/pdf/RR 06 Rulebook.pdf
The only gotcha may be Chapter 1: E-2-H-2 (formula extreme homologation): But this would be OK as long as Buell says that the frame & engine started life destined for the streetbike.
I think Superbike Planet really jumped the gun here.
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It's stupid. Erion is whining about something they know will (or already has) been reviewed by AMA Pro Racing anyway. I'd bet my K100 on the fact that Eric sat down with AMA months ago to make sure that the bike could race in the 200. I'd also bet they said "sure we need the deversity". So Erion is flapping his gums for no reason at all.
It may be stupid for Erion to be complaining but letting Buell have unlimited modifications IMO makes the class pretty retarded.
If the bike is so uncompetitive that they get to have over double the displacement, as many mods as they want on any part of the bike, etc, etc, then Buell better win every race all season long or they look pretty pathetic.
The class has obviously been stacked for Buell... if they can't win with this bike commandingly why on earth should we root for them.
If the bike is so uncompetitive that they get to have over double the displacement, as many mods as they want on any part of the bike, etc, etc, then Buell better win every race all season long or they look pretty pathetic.
The class has obviously been stacked for Buell... if they can't win with this bike commandingly why on earth should we root for them.
It will race whether or not it's strictly legal simply because the AMA will bend over backwards to put a Harley in the show.
Remember the VR1000 Superbike? It was designed as a racebike from a clean sheet of paper, then homologated by getting it certified as a streetbike in Poland or something. None was ever sold as a streetbike in Poland or anywhere else AFAIK, yet there it was, racing alongside the 851s, RC45s, OW01s, ZX7s, and Gixxers--models that filled the track parking lots.
Remember the VR1000 Superbike? It was designed as a racebike from a clean sheet of paper, then homologated by getting it certified as a streetbike in Poland or something. None was ever sold as a streetbike in Poland or anywhere else AFAIK, yet there it was, racing alongside the 851s, RC45s, OW01s, ZX7s, and Gixxers--models that filled the track parking lots.
We want Buell in the race and we don't want anyone spoiling the fun.
What about a class where the bikes are put on a dyno as part of tech inspection to verify that maximum torque is the same - a torque spec. Let the manufacturers decide how that torque gets to the rear wheel.
What about a class where the bikes are put on a dyno as part of tech inspection to verify that maximum torque is the same - a torque spec. Let the manufacturers decide how that torque gets to the rear wheel.
All this hubub over what Buell put in a press release?
If the engine and frame are production based the bike is likely FX legal
You can't ride an Erion Racing FX bike from the starting grid to the local Starbucks, either.
Seems to me Buell is doing the FX conversion in the factory, whereas Honda used to do it at the American Honda race shop and now does it in Erion's shop. But the end result is the same: a "competition only" bike based upon a production engine and frame.
If the engine and frame are production based the bike is likely FX legal
You can't ride an Erion Racing FX bike from the starting grid to the local Starbucks, either.
Seems to me Buell is doing the FX conversion in the factory, whereas Honda used to do it at the American Honda race shop and now does it in Erion's shop. But the end result is the same: a "competition only" bike based upon a production engine and frame.
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After delving a bit into the FX rules, Erion does have a somewhat credible *****--at least by the written word.
The problem is that the Buell press release and marketing strategy got them into a bit of a tangle.
I think it's pretty clear that this bike is largely based on the XB9/12 bikes, but what they should have done was called it the pseudo-factory-prepared-FX race-kitted XB-12 (or 9) or something. They probably would have avoided this whole mess.
Now, you can certainly argue that the unrestricted nature of the rules that applies to air-cooled twins is unfair, but that's another discussion.
I'd like to see them race and it seems the AMA will allow it.
The problem is that the Buell press release and marketing strategy got them into a bit of a tangle.
I think it's pretty clear that this bike is largely based on the XB9/12 bikes, but what they should have done was called it the pseudo-factory-prepared-FX race-kitted XB-12 (or 9) or something. They probably would have avoided this whole mess.
Now, you can certainly argue that the unrestricted nature of the rules that applies to air-cooled twins is unfair, but that's another discussion.
I'd like to see them race and it seems the AMA will allow it.
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Yep you Buell fans are right? The rules should be "fair". OK that means fair for everyone... Take off the restrictions on inline 4s and liquid Twins then.. The article said the rules for aircooled Twins were the most liberal. To be fair to everyone liberalize the rules. Whoops that doesn't make sense because then Haybusas and Ducati 999s would be racing agains the poor Buell...
Another rule made to favor Harley. The only fair way is CC.....
AMA should have two classes period. 600 cc and 1000cc. Perhaps an unlimited class over 1000cc where Buells could be smoked by Busas and ZX-14s...
Another rule made to favor Harley. The only fair way is CC.....
AMA should have two classes period. 600 cc and 1000cc. Perhaps an unlimited class over 1000cc where Buells could be smoked by Busas and ZX-14s...
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Yep Since the AMA official probably exchanges christmas cards with the Buellers.. Good catch Buz..;}
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Excellent points pbad..
In this era of peak oil maybe it's time for a new racing rule...
Based on a production bike, any engine size or configuration, a reasonable minimum weight (for safety and cost control) and no more than 8 gallons of 93 octane gas to finish the Daytona 200.
Of course that would give air cooled pushrod v-twins like the Buells an unfair advantage because, ummm... their engines are so inefficient?
Based on a production bike, any engine size or configuration, a reasonable minimum weight (for safety and cost control) and no more than 8 gallons of 93 octane gas to finish the Daytona 200.
Of course that would give air cooled pushrod v-twins like the Buells an unfair advantage because, ummm... their engines are so inefficient?
Dynamic displacement is equal
What is ignorant, I won't call it retarded cause that might offend the mentally challenged, no it is ignorant to judge engine performance solely on displacement.
How about we let 600cc 2-strokes in on the class then?
There is a measure of engine capability know as dynamic displacement which equals displacement times rev-limit in rpm.
For the new R6 we have...
0.6L*17,500rpm=10,500L/min
For the XBRR we have...
1.34L*8,500rpm=11,390L/min
Then consider that the Buell mill has half the number of cylinders and throttle bodies, one fourth the number of valves, and is air-cooled.
Pretty darn even.
Afraid of some American competition?
How can it possibly be bad to have more diversity in racing? I sure hope Ducati fields a 749R in the series this year. They were darn competitive when they did so in 2004 for a limited number of races.
Ignorance is sucky. Don't be sucky.
What is ignorant, I won't call it retarded cause that might offend the mentally challenged, no it is ignorant to judge engine performance solely on displacement.
How about we let 600cc 2-strokes in on the class then?
There is a measure of engine capability know as dynamic displacement which equals displacement times rev-limit in rpm.
For the new R6 we have...
0.6L*17,500rpm=10,500L/min
For the XBRR we have...
1.34L*8,500rpm=11,390L/min
Then consider that the Buell mill has half the number of cylinders and throttle bodies, one fourth the number of valves, and is air-cooled.
Pretty darn even.
Afraid of some American competition?
How can it possibly be bad to have more diversity in racing? I sure hope Ducati fields a 749R in the series this year. They were darn competitive when they did so in 2004 for a limited number of races.
Ignorance is sucky. Don't be sucky.
Right, all that matters to the IL4 cheerleaders is displacement. Until someone comes out with a V5 street bike that is. Then they'll whine and cry about it's advantage in performance and want rules to help equalize the different engine configurations.
There is a measure of engine capability know as dynamic displacement which equals displacement times rev-limit in rpm.
For the new R6 we have...
0.6L*17,500rpm=10,500L/min
For the XBRR we have...
1.34L*8,500rpm=11,390L/min
Then consider that the Buell mill has half the number of cylinders and throttle bodies, one fourth the number of valves, and is air-cooled.
Pretty darn even.
Afraid of some American competition?
How can it possibly be bad to have more diversity in racing? I sure hope Ducati fields a 749R in the series this year. They were darn competitive when they did so in 2004 for a limited number of races.
Ignorance is sucky. Don't be sucky.
There is a measure of engine capability know as dynamic displacement which equals displacement times rev-limit in rpm.
For the new R6 we have...
0.6L*17,500rpm=10,500L/min
For the XBRR we have...
1.34L*8,500rpm=11,390L/min
Then consider that the Buell mill has half the number of cylinders and throttle bodies, one fourth the number of valves, and is air-cooled.
Pretty darn even.
Afraid of some American competition?
How can it possibly be bad to have more diversity in racing? I sure hope Ducati fields a 749R in the series this year. They were darn competitive when they did so in 2004 for a limited number of races.
Ignorance is sucky. Don't be sucky.
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