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Yamaha & FZ-1 Site Fued

13707 Views 58 Replies 23 Participants Last post by  wheat
Re: Yamaha shuts down FZ1 sites

Wake up Yamaha.

This is a really stupid move!

You're upsetting your biggest advocates.
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Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

And Wham,

All the controversial posts are gone.

Just like that.

That was probably necessary, but it sure won't shut down the rumor mill.

I'm a regular of that board and what Wheat says here is totally true.
Re: Facts seem to be somewhat in dispute

True, if they are providing entire manuals, or even substantial portions. There does appear to be some significant grey area in between, and a commercial use gets a very different than a non-commercial use for those grey areas. For example, a commercial use of even a single illustration would likely be deemed copyright infringment, while the same use by a non-profit educational institution would get a lot more slack. Especially if the copyroght holder is not able to show that they have suffered economic harm as a result.

My point was not so much directed at their legal right as to the appropriateness of the response. A non-commercial use might better have been responded to with a velvet glove instead of an iron fist. This is a commercial, rather than legal, position.


My fault 100% for posting this thing. I started this mess, and now I'm going to end it. Seems like the site wasn't as bad as posted and neither was Yamaha. Both came to an agreement, and the following statement is from their site:

Ok Guys,

Here is the scoop.

I just got off the phone with Brad Bannister and Bob Starr of Yamaha. They were finally able to track down who sent Pat and I the C&D. As I suspected it was an attorney on retainer by Yamaha to protect its intellectual property on the internet. Yamaha has several of these firms working for them and they do not inform Yamaha of every C&D they issue. So it took some time for them to track down exactly who issued the C&D and what it was for.

Long story short, Yamaha is sending me a licensing agreement for the FZ1OA so that we may use their trademarks on our site. I should have it next week some time. Once I do we will put the web site back online.

In closing I'd like you all to know that both Bob and Brad were very apologetic about the situation. They were also very instrumental in getting this resolved in a positive way for the OA. We couldn't have done it without their help.

I would also like to thank Mitch Boehm, Marc Cook and our very own Wyn. These guys really went to bat for us and got me in touch with Brad and Bob.

My hats off to each of you!


So, I screwed up for posting the thing, Yamaha wasn't sure what went down when things happened, and the site got scared, and people went off. So, is hit the fan and now let it die. I think everyone learned something here. I know I did. Yamaha did right by the site, and the site did right by Yamaha. So please buy your FZ1's with complete confidence. Now I'm going off to stick some needles in my eyes for some pain relief. My apologies to everyone.

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Hey Longride

Don't beat yourself up too much on this. It was news, even if it mostly resulted from a misunderstanding. I suspect a lot of the crap about dealers, manufacturers etc that gets slung on this and many other sites is equally a matter of misunderstanding. Maybe we all learned not to immediately assume the worst.

Not to mention, I found this really informative site on "Fair Use" of copyrighted materials that banda posted. Clarified some issues with things that sometimes get posted here.

All's well that ends well.

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Re: Yamaha shuts down FZ1 sites

Hey, looks like you pretty well nailed this one -- see LongRide's post at the end.

Oh yeah, meant to ask.....

.........was your pasting of Steve's post covered within "fair use" guidelines?

Actually, it does not appear that the FZ-1 web site is asserting copyright ownership so I doubt that you will get a C&D ;-)

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Don't start! I'm trying to kill this thing and you keep giving it mouth to mouth!
Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

FYI, the Fazer 600 is nothing like a Seca!

It has an engine based on the Thundercat's, and is generally regarded as one of the smoothest 600's (95 HP, 64 NM). Add the R6/R1 brakes, the same steering geometry as today's 600's (I think more sporty than the Thundercat), relaxed ergo's (no clip-ons), cheap, and you know why it is the best selling bike in Europe since it's introduction.

It has come out on top in _every_ comparison so far, against the SV650, CB600S, Bandit, but also in tests which included a wide variety of bikes. It has never been compared to the Seca because it is a completely different bike.

The best thing is the price, it is only marginally more expensive than the SV650.

Anyway, my main point is, it cannot be compared to the Seca, I think you guys in the US are missing out on a great bike. Each time an SV is recommended on the forum I can't help but thinking the Fazer would be a better choice for most.
Hmmmm. Link is gone, now

Looks like someone deleted the post in question. Can someone repost?


Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

Boo hoo. Oh how chastised I feel. Boo hoo.
I'm in publishing, so we deal with copyright and fair use issues all the time.

Publishing excerpts of a longer work, limited to 300 words or less, used in context to your work is fine.

Pulbishing excerpts of poetry or music lyrics is a definite no-no.

If the site scanned a complete Yamaha owner's manual and posted it without permission, they are heinously in the wrong. it would be akin to taking the manual down to the local copy shop, having it copied and bound, and them selling it at a profit. Illegal to the max. They should feel lucky that Yamaha just pulled the plug and is not seeking some kind of punitive damages...

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Re: Yamaha Shuts Down, Then Licenses To, FZ-1 Site

Yes, the Seca 2 really was like the Fazer when it appeared in 1992. It had a smooth, decently powerful engine compared to 600's at the time, (keep in mind that this was 11 years ago), it had the relaxed ergos of the Fazer, it was very cheap, it had good brakes (the same as the top dog Yamaha 600 at the time, the FZR600, except with a single disc), and they even had a specific roadrace series for it with excellent contingency. I will admit that it is a different bike now because it has been repositioned by Yamaha, but comparing the concept of the Fazer today with the concept of the Seca when it was introduced in 1992, it is the same.
BTW, what is a "FUED"?
Having a hard time reading? Above it is clearly stated that the group in question not only did not do these things, but Yamaha is seeking to develop a relationship.

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