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Oh, wait a minute. Now let me understand, if I decide in June that I want an FJR for the summer riding season, I should have been smart enough to know such a thing back in March. Guess what, I already learned that lesson the first year they sold them. I got my bike in August so I could enjoy about a month and a half of the riding season (weather permitting). This program only pisses the customers and the dealers off. There is no real answer for why they do it other then their ongoing, "We know what's good for you attitude!" As a life long Yamaha customer, all I can say is bring me my MT-01 and don't package it in one of these stupid programs!



Ducati "Foggy" Monster Man
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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I've seen 3 in Missouri that dealers are discounting by 1000 bucks right off the bat. There is a new FJR sitting in the dealership of DGY in Downers Grove, and has been there for 3 months. Want it? I'll ride it over next week.
 

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Um, we're not a collection of psychological responses?



Permit me to get annoyed for a moment, as I am one of the reptilian sub-humans to which you refer.



You'll get no argument from me as to whether there are marketers that engage in shameless and empty games. There are and always will be.



However, most transparent marketing ploys are usually rejected by consumers. And that usually hurts the companies. There is an incentive not to pursue these avenues if the marketer is paying attention. Some don't, and when they get stung they may start to. Others never really learn.



In my experience (and I stress MY experience) working on the ad agency side, we advise companies not to do such things. In fact, I spend a good part of my time trying to sell interesting and *gasp* thought-provoking ideas to people who could really give a rat's a$$ about reality. So let's not blame the ad agencies for everything. In the end, we can only deliver what our clients' allow us to create.



Now, the thing that people overlook is that companies that spend a lot of money establishing a brand name are more likely to produce good products and services. Most don't invest all that money in a brand to later sh#t on it by ripping off its customers intentionally. (The ones who do usually fail.) That's why most people buy "brand names." If you were in marketing, you've probably heard this argument before.



As far as the FJR issue goes, I don't know enough to say if it's strictly a ploy or not. I do know that it's frustrating to many people and that could have negative effects for Yamaha down for the line. But since I don't have an insider's view, or a crystal ball, I really couldn't say.





 

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Tuesday Morning’s Best Lap Times:



1. Mat Mladin, Suz GSX-R1000 Superbike, 1:40.547

2. Ben Spies, Suz GSX-R1000 Superbike, 1:41.222

3. Neil Hodgson, Duc 999F05 Superbike, 1:41.312

4. Aaron Yates, Suz GSX-R1000 Superstock, 1:41.671

5. Jason Pridmore, Suz GSX-R1000 Superstock, 1:42.175

6. Vincent Haskovec, Suz GSX-R1000 Superstock, 1:42.589

7. Damon Buckmaster, Yam YZF-R1 Superstock, 1:42.673

8. Tommy Hayden, Kaw ZX-10R Superstock, 1:43.170

9. Josh Hayes, Kaw ZX-10R Superbike, 1:43.330

10. Eric Bostrom, Duc 999F05 Superbike, 1:43.395

11. Roger Lee Hayden, Kaw ZX-10R Superbike, 1:43.484

12. Jason DiSalvo, Yam YZF-R6 Supersport, 1:43.510

13. Tommy Hayden, Kaw ZX-6RR Supersport, 1:43.784

14. Miguel Duhamel, Hon CBR600RR Formula Xtreme, 1:44.053

15. Aaron Gobert, Yam YZF-R6 Supersport, 1:44.156

16. Michael Barnes, Yam YZF-R6 Supersport, 1:44.325

17. Jake Zemke, Hon CBR1000RR Superbike, 1:45.037

18. Steve Rapp, Suz GSX-R1000 Superstock, 1:46.003

19. Mike Ciccotto, Buell XB12R Formula Xtreme, 1:46.027

20. Taylor Knapp, Yam YZF-R6 Supersport, 1:46.176

21. Ben Spies, Suz GSX-R600 Supersport, 1:46.423

22. Jake Zemke, CBR600RR Formula Xtreme, 1:46.497

23. Geoff May, Suz GSX-R600 Supersport, 1:46.662

24. Ben Attard, Kaw ZX-6RR Formula Xtreme, 1:47.302

25. Alex Gobert, Hon CBR600RR Formula Xtreme, 1:47.351

26. Matt Lynn, Suz GSX-R1000 Superstock, 1:47.932

27. Dan Bilansky, Buell XB12R Formula Xtreme, 1:54.548

 

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Johnny, you're probably right. I don't have the slightest clue as to what an accurate U.S. sales projection for this bike might be (you may have a better understanding since you have some relationship with the company), but if Yamaha really thought it could sell 10,000 bikes here, they probably wouldn't have this program. My gut tells me that they don't feel like they can sell too many more yet, so they're being conservative. The worst thing for them would be to have a couple of thousand leftovers sitting on showroom floors. If it's a low production bike, their margins have to be higher--leftovers and discounts are the kiss of death.



And I'd have to think that regardless of Yamaha's might and the relatively small production numbers for the FJR, they're trying to make a profit on a bike like this; it's no loss-leader.



That being said, I can see why it frustrates people. I wouldn't want to buy a bike I couldn't see, and at least sit on, before I buy. And the waiting for delivery kinda sucks. Then again, I don't HAVE to buy one. No one does.



Yamaha could be shooting themselves in the foot or it could be working just as they say. We'll see.
 

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Agreed. Let's find more ways to soak the public... come on Yamaha, you know we want the bike produce it will ya?!
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 ·
Okay, I hear ya.



But, from my experience (as a recovering reptile) seeing the cracks, buttons and weakness of people wasn't something that was a matter of policy, but If you didn't have the ability to do it, you weren't much use.



Now, everytime I see some teenager pouring through the pages of some "You're-a-Loser-if-You-Aren't-Us" magazine, I want to scream. Because, when it comes right down to it, advertising tries to convince people that some THING, other than themselves, will make them happy.



And, if that ain't Bull $hit, I ain't never seen a cow.



As for me, I keep things in perspective by figuring that if somebody hasn't climbed K2, performed heart surgery and won the Nobel Prize, they're just a schmuck like the rest of us, even if they do own a Ducati.



So, lemme ask ya, when Grim-Death is staring you in the face, do you really think he gives a Flying-F%cK about what brand of shoes you're wearing?



:)

 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
Wouldn't ya know it.

Now, I'm really annoyed!

After saying all that nasty stuff about advertising, I look up and see that I just wrote, what would be, a great Brand Name and Positioning Statement for a motorcycle clothing company.

Grim-Death

BECAUSE...

When Grim-Death is staring you in the face, do you really think he gives he cares how pretty you look?

Make a great T-shirt, too.

Just did a Web-search, no resuslts...Boy O Boy!

This one's getting mailed for copyright.

What can I say; Once an ad-man Always an ad-man.

Hey, pdad, gotta opening at your shop for a Rat-Bastard-Hypocrite? >;-) ;-( :)...he, he, he...
 

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Discussion Starter · #115 ·
Re: Buell Dudes

Amazing what you can do with a cement mixer (sorry, couldn't help myself). Actually, 2nd out of six, on the first day, isn't too bad. I'd like to see the Buells do well, especially since - from what I undestand - they're not a factory team. Because, after all, Buell doesn't build sport bikes, they build street fighters (whateverthehell they are). Anyway, good luck Buell...or...I mean...$hit! Now I'm confused.

I got it!

Go anybody who isn't riding a Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or aYamaha (that about covers it).
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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So a company that has spent untold millions on marketing research isn't sure that the bike will sell? Kind of like saying the ranger isn't sure if bear shyts in the woods. Bad old 80's? It might have been bad for Triumph, Norton, Harley, and the rest of the Euros, but the Japanese were raking it in, and putting them all under. They WISH it was like the 80's again!
 

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Hmmm lemme get this straight. 94 lbft and 131 hp at the rear wheel, overwhelming reviews on every mag, victory in every comparo, incl MO´s own (by a big margin). So you want to bet that machine is an image/fashion etc. thingie?



- cruiz-euro

 

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
I wanna Cafe' Racer

Ya make a good point about Japanese styling.

Now, just think if they crossed thier wires a little bit. How cool would an SV1000 that was dressed-out like the new Norton be?

I don't know about anyone else, but when I superimpose the Norton over the SV (in my mind) - along with a vintage quarter-fairing - I get a goofy grin on my face that won't quit.

In may fantasy, the contours would be the same as the Norton, but it would have a pillion seat and a Suzuki jelly-bean cowl (all tastefully integrated , of course).

Okay, it'll never happen, but whadday think?
 

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it's a basic economic principle - capturing the consumer margin. For any given product there are people who will pay say $12000 for an FJR, more people who will pay $10G for an FJR, and even more people who will pay $9G for an FJR. Yamaha-USA is sufficiently timid and unsure of itself and the demand curve they are dealing with (which has bit the J4 repeatedly in the past) IMO that instead of looking to maximize profits by bracket selling, they're going to take the easy route and sell to only and all of the persons who will gladly pay $12G AND deal with the hassle to boot. It's "risk-averse" selling to put it mildly.



Without doing a proper, controlled survey I can't pinpoint how much real anger is being directed at the brand over this and how many FJR sales they are missing or frankly how many Yam sales are losing to Hon/Suz/Kaw. I would guess the portion of motorcycle buyers *****ing about this is a VERY small and probably on-line minority. Joe schmoe just thinks it's the cost of doing business with Yam and so the annoyance isn't very big at all.



Yam-USA sales can happily get their award for selling every or nearly every FJR for max unit profit. The company may, may I say, have reasons to desperately NOT have unsold models on it's hands. Why I don't know. Seems to me any US models could trivially be gotten rid of in the EU where real motorcyclists abound. Instead of getting an award, if I were Yam-JP I'd actually fine Yam-USA for failing to maximize the factory's profits. Thought you were getting a big bonus? Sorry, we'll give you just 1/4 of your bonus.



One obviously can't keep everybody happy all the time but with this being Yam's 50th anniversary and all, why engage in a sales policy that IS generating a backlash at all?
 
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