[TorinoPaddy]

Re: 919 over S4? People still read tank badges.

Overcome the S4? Here in Italy it will trounce the Duc in sales figures at any rate and no doubt about it. The price is right and Honda have a well deserved reputation here. The 900's little brother, the Hornet 600 has been the best-seller here since it was introduced. In fact 50% of all Hornet sales are in Italy and from next year it will even be built here. There is no doubt in my mind that the 919 was developed for the Italian market, with their eyes on the thousands of current Hornet 600 owners here looking for the same great bike but with a bit more power. They may be exporting it to the States, but the big sales will be here in Ducati's backyard.

 

[richsHP]

Re: 919 and Asphalt???

I have to say, I love this bike! I'm can't wait to throw my money at Honda when it comes out. I'm tired of super-go-fast superbikes being the only option for some decent power. I like the tough look, the ability to pound the next poseur on a 600 supersport into the "asphault" from one stoplight to the next, and the cool design of the twin high pipes. Some alternative colors-even one!- would be nice although I'd get the asphault

 

[fleshharrower]

Re: 919 is cool as hell

With a four-cylinder, I agree...you gotta stick the pipes up front like that. And the radiator too, unless you are going to get radical like Honda's NAS project (under the seat). However, I still call it ugly. If I bought watercooled or 4-cylinder then I would want a fairing to hide all that crap

 

[Lateshow321]

Re: HONDA NEEDS SMALLER DO-IT-ALL BIKES

Its called a Suzuki SV650! I've had numerous inline fours from three of the four Jap builders (Nighthawk 450. Nighthawk S, FZ750, FZR600, CB1000, Bandit1200). Now I'm riding an SV650) and I absolutely love it!! Sure I wish for more power most of the time, but remember "Flickability" ??? The 919 should be as it is, except substitute a 1000cc Vtwin motor. There is also room for a new Hawk GT 650...For those of you who haven't been on a Vtwin do yourself a favor and get a ride on one. The smooth broad power that flows from 3K - 9K is so much more fun that a wind em up and then go inline four

 

[Lateshow321]

YES YES YES V-Twins rule!!!

Sounds like an SV650 with a big bore kit, just give us an SV1000, without full bodywork it isn't a sportbike and is cheap to insure. SV ergos are comfy too!!

 

[dubstyl]

Let us review;

1988-Honda takes almost all its engineering technology and puts it in the Hawk.They leave out a potent motor probably because of cost issues.

1997-Honda has been dragging ass about replacing the Hawk and finally offers something but swings totally in the other direction with the SuperHawk.I'm still pissed about the swingarm!

2002-Honda got pressure from the competition and decides to basically scrap the ideas that started this Naked war and offers the worst of both worlds.An NOS motor from 1994 in a frame that sounds like it will handle like a school bus on roller skates.They have plenty of gear-driven VFR motors lying around now, so get creative and stop copy-catting.Anybone can build a Bandit!Ducati at least pushes the envelope on their outdated machines.

Honda is a great company, but sometimes they get their head stuck in their corporate blackhole.Actually, all the Japanese builders do stuff like this and then complain about stale sales and pull out of the U.S. market.We should just take it upon ourselves to build the bikes we want since nobody appears to be listening.



P.S.Hey Honda, Aprilia called and they want the Futura blueprints back!

 

[itchface]

I'm not thrilled overall with the new 919. I just don't think it holds a candle to the FZ1, and costs only $500 less. The FZ1 has a fairing for more comfortable freeway riding, a centerstand to make chain maintenance easier, adjustable rebound and compression damping for the suspension for a personalized set-up and to compensate for wear, and a whole bunch more claimed horsepower. Given all these yen-cutting omissions, the Honda should have been priced closer to the $6999 price of the unfaired Bandit 1200. Now, if they could have used the VTR1000 motor instead of a characterless inline 4, the price would have become somewhat irrelevant; that would have been a "must-have" at any reasonable price!

 

[itchface]

You know, I was reading my comments from a few days ago, and find that I couldn't agree with me more. Clearly I'm very insightful, knowledgeable, and an extremely good spellur. I didn't mention, however, another advantage of the Yamaha; color choices. Blue, black, or silver. Take your pick. The Honda? One color. Asphalt (asphalt?). Another brownie point for Yamaha. Anyway, I commend me on a very articulate, well thought-out point of view, and look forward to reading more from me in the future.

 

[Z-force]

Re: Disappointed

I agree with everyones comments. Why just 800 cc's? The VFR 800 cant compete with the 750's and even some of the 600's! Why not 1000 cc's? I liked the yellow better than the red. Silver, thats ok too. How about Pearl White with red and blue graphics (like the 93?). Speaking of graphics, where the hell are they??? I hope Tapewerks has some for the bike. Hey Honda, if you can make an Erion 929, how about a "Castrol" VFR. Bet you could charge $100-200 more and sell more than those "plain vanilla" (ok strawberry) VFR's!!

 

[BigGit]

Re: Suggestion to itchego

Maybe you could just write your comments on a piece of paper at your desk, so anytime you want to be inspired by your own comments, you can read them at your leisure without wasting MO's server space or its readers' time.

I agree with your comment about the centrestand, though. How anyone can build a bike like that without one is beyond me. Then again, if one wants a practical bike, Honda still makes the Nighthawk 750...

 

[itchface]

Re: Suggestion to biggit

There really wasn't any need to use the 3 periods at the end of your comments, signifying that there's more to the statement than was written. That statement seems very much complete to me. I normally wouldn't worry about it, but I understand that MO has a serious shortage of server space and, frankly, I was a bit peeved that I was forced to shift my focus by a billionth of a degree to take in all of those superfluous periods. In the future, please try to conserve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[28872]

Amen Charles - I ride a Bandit 1200 but would jump at the chance at an updated Magna with big cubes. I used to have a Saber V65, and I loved that ridiculously smooth mega power.

Hail to the V4!

Jim

 

[REDSHIRTCASUALTY]

Really like your attitude about the XX. Where is that kind of thinking from Honda??

 

[superscoot]

Why no mention of the new Silver Wing in the "Year 2002 Honda" article? This is big news to me as I've been waiting years for a Super Scooter to trump the Helix. Thank you, Honda! I've already put down my deposit.

 

[Dual__Exhaust]

Performance First is more like second or third. Or, maybe trying to control every market segment stretches the top Big Red engineering teams too thin.

 

[PatBateman]

'02 Ace

Help a poor squid. I'm in the planning stage of selling my 97 Trans Am and getting, possibly, an 02 Ace 750. I've read everything at msgroup.org (great tips there) and planning to take the MSF course next week. Then I begin selling my car, so I have a while to pick a bike.

While I'm a speed freak in the car, I recognize the danger of bikes and am vacuuming safety information, with my #1 goal of being safe on the bike. While I might drive 130mph with my V8, the point of the bike is simply to save money and ditch this expensive car.

My goal is to stay under $6k and get a nice looking cruiser.

I rode dirt bikes about 10 years ago, too long ago to remember anything.

The Ace 750 (VT750CD) is attractive due to being one of the cheapest bikes and great looking, having ~750cc. At 500lbs I'm afraid this bike might be a bit much for a first-timer. Chain maintenance is not an attractive idea, yet, I hear shaft performance is not as good. If this bike is too much, the VLX line is really my only choice, around 500cc.

The Suzuki Volusia, and 805cc bike with shaft drive, looks great, and I found one under $6k brand new locally. A bit bigger than the Honda in CC, but the shaft I suspect would balance that out anyway resulting in a similar bike.

If my concerns about starting out are valid, and I should have something less powerful, the VStar with 605cc shaft drive looks like a good option. It's an excellent looking bike and quite cheap, with a shaft drive.

On the other hand, if I'm overworrying about CC, I'd like the 805cc Suzuki so that I could grow into it.

My only other worry is rear drum brakes all around. I hear they suck, but, overbraking is bad, so maybe this is a good thing.

Another question: How long do bikes last, assuming regularly scheduled maintenance is honored and the bike is not abused? I've heard it all - that 15k on a bike is 100k on a car (meaning one year) versus stories of Honda bikes going 200k miles.

HELP A SQUID! A URL that would answer all this would be welcome too.

- Patrick Bateman

 

[BigGit]

Re: Apology to itchface

I just re-read your second post and realized I missed something:

Clearly I'm very insightful, knowledgeable, and an extremely good spellur.

Had I caught the "spellur" earlier, I would have realized that the massive egotism in the post was all a joke, like the Mac Davis song "Oh Lord, It's Hard To Be Humble". Unfortunately, I did miss that and the "ego trip" just had me seeing red, which caused me to bring down the hammer.

What can I say? I blew up, and I'm sorry.

 

[BigGit]

Re: I do not know how helpful my advice will be...

... since all my motorcycling experience is on small standards and commuters, but I'll try anyway. Most of this stuff is second-hand info; more experienced riders will post soon (if they haven't already...)

First of all, I would like to commend you for planning to take the MSF course before buying a bike. I would suggest that you not call yourself a "squid", as the term generally refers to clueless sportbike riders with little regard for safety or riding skill, and who always want the fastest, most powerful bikes available despite the fact that they have no idea how to use them effectively. Your interest in starting out in a safety course (and your interest in cruisers) keeps you well out of the "squid" category.

Now, I assume that part of your definition of a "nice-looking cruser" includes a V-twin engine, as all the bikes you mentioned have one. If so, then the Suzuki LS650 Savage and the Kawasaki Vulcan 500 fall out of consideration (the Triumph Bonneville America would be well over your $6K limit anyway) These are lighter and somewhat more manoueverable than the midsize (!) cruisers you mention.

The concerns about weight are twofold: being able to control the inertia while riding and picking the d*mn thing up after you drop it (and you WILL drop it, trust me!). You can ask your MSF instructor about those scenarios.

The best thing you can do toward deciding which bike is right for you is to try them out with test rides, especially if you go with a friend who is an experienced rider. However, I hear that most dealerships do not allow test rides, so that avenue may be closed.

Drum brakes are old technology, and it is true that disc brakes give better braking performance at the limit. But drums work; the bikes aren't unsafe for not having rear disc brakes.

As for final drives:

CHAIN:

Pro:

- Easy gear-ratio swapping,

- No appreciable torque reaction,

- Efficient power transfer when properly set up.

Con:

- Requires frequent lubrication, especially with an exposed chain,

- Chain enclosures don't look cool so most cruisers don't have 'em.

- Wear and "stretch" of the chain causes the need for periodic realignment, which if neglected or done incorrectly will greatly shorten the life and reliability of the chain

SHAFT:

Pro:

-Relatively little maintenance,

-Greater reliability (less to get wrong and less frequent opportunity to get it wrong).

Con:

- The most inefficient of the three main methods of power transfer.

- The shaft generates a torque reaction that affects the bike's stability, especially in corners.

- Changing gear ratios is NOT simple or quick (not really a problem except in competition)

BELT:

Pro:

- Cleaner than chain

- Lighter than chain

- Possibly more wear resistant than chains (depending on application)

- No appreciable torque reaction

Con:

- Some bike designs make changing the drive belt a real pain (unlike chains, belts can't be opened)

- Changing gear ratios is NOT simple or quick (not really a problem except in competition)

- Periodic adjustment needed (not applicable for some Buell models)

With regular maintenance, modern bikes should last a very long time. Even modern Italian bikes, although they might require a bit more maintenance...

One last note: I'm sorry to hear that your entry into motorcycling is coming at the expense of your Trans-Am. I'm even more sorry to state that I'm not in a position to buy it.

 

[PatBateman]

Re: I do not know how helpful my advice will be...

Thanks, everything is helpful.

I can't believe that anyone would enter motorcycling without taking the MSF course. It just seems moronic.

I read an article on how to pick up bikes at msgroup.org that I'm pretty confident about. I didn't know how I'd manage that, but now it seems simple.

I think I'll stick with chain, the idea of having a torque effect while cornering is a bit scary. How hard is it to lube anyway? Since I always keep things maintained regularly anyway, the chain adjustment shouldn't be an issue. And since I'm probably going to get the Honda, it should last long enough.

Thanks again,

Pat

 

[PatBateman]

2002 Magna vs ACE750

Can I have some opinions?

Here's the URL to the specs to help:

http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/models/2002/index.html?model_number=VT750CD

http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/models/2002/index.html?model_number=VF750C

I know little about engines. I guess what I'd like to know is whether the bigger bore/stroke, compression, DOHC (vs SOHC), and suspension differences are worth the $1500.

Pat