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The only reason the 954 isn't as wheelie-prone as the R1 is because the Honda is a bit down on torque/power compared to the R1.

Torque and power aren't the only factors in wheelies. The position of the bike/rider CG and the coefficient of friction (CG) must be included.

Any of these supersport replicas have wheelbases short enough that weight transfer provides enough traction to lift the front tire well before the rear will spin, given enough power and decent pavement conditions.

You're ignoring CG location. Force can't lift the front end at all until weight transfer to the rear wheel is 100 percent. If the limit of traction is reached before then the wheel will lose grip. If the weight on the front wheel at that point is less than zero, you can go faster by putting more weight on the front.

Trace down the post just before yours on this thread. We've been having a really great discussion.

Thanks for your response. And if you don't agree with me, respond to this post. It's a discussion, OK?
 

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Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike - Number Gixxer front end? How the Gixxer can win.

CanuckBusa,

I am definitely certifiable, and you're gonna think I'm nuts, but learn how to REALLY ride, buy a SV650, and stuff 'em in every corner worth flicking into, then grin like an idiot when they blow by you on the straights out of pure frustration.....only to be further embarrased at the next turn :) Cheers, Jack
 

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Correction!

I said You're ignoring CG location.

Sorry, you didn't ignore it. You said ...the GSXR will also easily lift the front wheel under power alone in spite of the slightly longer wheelbase and forward-biased riding position. , so you didn't ignore it completely.

The height of the CG and it's distance from the rear wheel are just as important as power in producing a wheelie. Both are related to wheelbase and (especially) rider position. My argument is that the natural riding position on the R1 is just a bit too high or too far back. If you just love wheelies, it's the bike for you. I like maximum acceleration and I could love the R1 too, as long as I can manage the wheelies with my riding position without discomfort.

In the previous branch of this thread, one respondent mentioned that the R1 CG has been raised in the 2002 model. That may be the (very small) problem.
 

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Mellow Greetings fellow gear heads,

Here is what I've taken away from this review so far. All these bikes are all really, really, fast. They all handle really well. They are all like owning your own personal NASCAR racer for street use. I guess you should purchase whichever bike has the best dealership in your area. Now that would be a good review. Which manufacturer backs their product the best?

Dave
 

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look at the fairings on these bikes. just about zero effective wind protection. But wait, thats for old fogeys on Gold Wings, right? No, not really. Look at the fairing on that Ducati GP bike. You could hide an elephant behind it.



If I am going to go fast on it, or if I am going to ride it for long at more than 60mph, it had better have very good good windprotection for my 6'3" body. Any sport bike that can't provide me with adequate wind protection isn't going to get my money. It is absolutely and completely irrelevant how fast or well handling it is.



Which means my interest in these bikes is ZERO.
 

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....as is your understandinfg of the wind protection capabilities of the Ducati GP bike, if you think it offers any more wind protection than the GSX-R...



These bikes are designed for aerodynamic efficiency while in the fully tucked position. The Ducati was designed in the wind tunnel, with the rider scrunched down as much as possible for the purposes of increasing the top speed. The Ducati would have even less wind protection than the GSX-R if one were to ride it down I5, tooling along while sitting up and smelling the cow *****...
 

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At 6-3 I doubt that you'd fit in the Ducatti at all. The rider in the picture has only inches of clearance in the required full tuck. You surely wouldn't want to cruise for hours at 60+ in that position.

The FJR-1300 should suit you, though. What do you think?
 

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Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout - fixing R1 vibes

yzf1070. well i drove a gixxer1000 last year for a short ride and found that the bars didn't vibe much, but you could definitely feel it in the pegs. didn't ride it long enough to decide if it would be an annoyance.

i think i like the r1 best of these three bikes. but, practicality inexorably is pushing me in the direction of the honda - even though its injection isn't as good, it isn't as powerful, and it isn't as stable.

you see i drive sometimes all day in the mountains. and i am wondering if maybe the r1 is gonna get real tiring to ride after a couple of hours because of the ergos.

if I only did short rides. the r1 wins. but for those all day rides, and longer trips, it may be too uncomfortable and I may be better off on the slightly less sharp honda.
 

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Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike - Number Gixxer front end? How the Gixxer can win.

in think the transition from busa to sv is too large for me to make. i am already 10 percent down on power because of the altitude where I live. no, i will just drop one size. 1000cc not to big, not too small.
 

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Wind protection is wind protection. Whether its to take you to 200+ mph, or to keep your helmet from buffeting on a street bike at 150mph, or to let you travel at 90mph for 3 hours without stretching your arms by a foot, the point is that on a motorcycle, wind blast is my enemy and wind protection is a good thing. The Ducati GP bike offers lots of tuck in protection, and probably not much when the rider sits up. But it DOES offer protection when and where the rider needs it. None of the replica race street bikes do where and when this rider would need it.



I ride a ZX-12R which has good but not great wind protection. Sure, a racer tuck can get me to 180 indicated very smoothly, but whenever I am not tucked in, the air is beating my body up. It may not matter for 20 second bursts to 150mph, but its a royal pain when I spend a day in the saddle on the back roads. My whole torso and arms are tired from fighting the wind blast. By the end of the day, I tuck in behind the fairing even on 60mph slow roads just to get out of the blast.



I am going to install a much taller screen on the 12, and hopefully that will go a long way.



I laugh at the whole idea that wind protection on street bikes is for pu$$ies, as if somehow you're more of a hardcore bada$$ if you scoff at wind protection. Actually the joke is people who give up functionality for style and heroic tough guy imagery.
 

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Sportbikes' aeros are designed for least air resistance when in full tuck. You want your sportbike but you want it to be a tourer too. It don't work that way. If you're gonna do sport riding (which is racetrack, not canyon roads or pulling the trigger on a straight for 20 seconds -- my grandma can do that), then you gotta do as much work as the bike, and your body has to be prepared for it. Your muscles are gonna be sore -- it's a sport, not a freaking video game. It sounds like you need a capable sport tourer, which is fine. It'll go fast and it will give you a broader range of body positioning without blasting you with wind. And by the way, if your whole point is that you don't care about any of these bikes, why post at all?
 

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Re: Honda 954 vs GSXR-750

Actually I think the dude just wants advice from those of us who have ridden both(maybe someone who had a 750 but just traded it in for a 954). Since I can't say I've ridden either, I guess I am not much help.

- BA
 

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Since I spent a great deal of time ripping the last article, I think it is only fair that I give props to MO for providing an entertaining article this time. Nice explanations for how each bike handled on street conditions, and how they feel. Also a good amount of material which consumed a good portion of my excess lunch break. Since I will unfortunately not be able to afford any of these bikes for a while, I am stuck in 600 land and am forced to live my liter bike fantasies through magazine editors.



I personally am stuck between the 954, r1, and the zx9. The r1 looks awesome,and has really really great performance. The 954 is comfortable, and seems to have really great performance. The zx9 while only having great performance, is very comfortable and is $1100 cheaper than the 954 which probably makes it my top pick. Of course, the r1 looks so darn cool that it keeps poping in and out as my #1 choice. The gsxr although spewing testosterone, just seems like it is too uncomfortable and not all that great looking next to the r1 and 954.



I will be interested in seeing how they do at the track. Good job so far guys.
 

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You mention sport riding being race track. How many of the sport bikes sold spend any meaningful about of time on the race track? And if we are talking race track, how come these sportbikes don't get the same level of wind management that GP bikes do? Come on, admit it, its all for the style, the ego massage, the machismo. "Grandmas need wind protection and I am not a grandma."



And oh yeah, GTs like the ZX-11, CBR-XX, Busa, 12, all have lower wind resistance in full tuck than the replica racers, and they STILL provide way better wind protection.



Bottom line? replica racers are great bikes, but their functionality and usability is compromized to appeal to the ego of the buyer. If the R1 was exactly the same bike as it is, except if its fairing was larger for better wind protection, Its sales would drop in half because it would then be looked upon as a grandma bike.
 

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Who gets the $50?



I'm a good old Yankee born in Iowa and raised in California.



It's not just the motorcycle press that does this of course. The car reviewers do it, computer reviewers do it to a degree, movie critics have done it for years.



If a reviewer is too honest no manufacturer is going to send their products. I can understand that.. I just wish it weren't so obvious sometimes.
 

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Re: 954 is the new luxo-tourer

Goodness, I've been censored. I guess we still have to worry about offending them there old spinster librarians. Anyway, the censored post suggested that Busa Boy did some unsavory things with his fist, which would explain why he thinks it's ridiculous to sport tour on anything smaller than a barge-like Busa.

But with an aftermarket saddle and a set of Helibars, there's no reason a top-shelf sport bike can't be an excellent sport tourer. I've put 1000-mile plus days on several sportbikes. [Expletive self censored] the FZ1--give me an R1 that is an R1 for the real world. There's no reason to sacrifice handling and power for comfort. I think the new 954 proves that.
 

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Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike - Number Gixxer front end? How the Gixxer can win.

So, if you want to run a liter bike, buy the GSX-R1000 and put Pirelli, Dunlop, or Michelin (preferable) tires instead of the Bridgestones. Then you can dust em on the straights and kick butt in the corners . . . . . I do ! ! ! !
 

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These are very good points, and stability is a big worry with the 954 for a lot of people, especially after the crash at Las Vegas during the bike's track intro.



I tend to ride fairly fast on deserted twisty country roads, but in all honesty, I don't think I ride fast enough for headshake to be an issue. If I start doing more track days, this would probably be a more pressing concern. Right now my major concern is to get a bike that is easier to ride fast in extremely tight, technical corners, something with excellent front end feel so I can concentrate on looking through the corners instead of concentrating on the road surface. I want to intuite that through the handlebars. From these comparison tests, it seems like the 954 meets those requirements best.



But what the hell do I know? I don't even plan on buying a bike this year. I'm waiting until next year to see how good the new Suzuki SV1000 will be. If they build a better Ducati, I will buy one. If they screw the pooch, I'll probably buy a carryover 954.
 

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Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike - Number Gixxer front end? How the Gixxer can win.

Michelin makes a new tire, Pilot Sport HPX, designed to handle the high horsepower / high torque output produced by bikes like the GSX-R1000, Kawasaki ZX-12, and Suzuki HAYABUSA! See Motorcycle Online Product Review section for the article on Michelin Pilot Sport dated October 11, 1999. The HPX has the same qualities as the regular Pilot Sport.
 
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