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Original Article:
York H-D union agrees to huge job cuts

Please discuss the Motorcycle.com article York H-D union agrees to huge job cuts in our Motorcycle Forums below. Use the reply button to let others know your comments or feedback on the article. Constructive criticism is always appreciated, along with your thoughts and personal opinions on the bikes and products we have tested.
 

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Aging Cafe` Racer
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That's the way it's going now, these corporations are all playing hardball with their negotiations. Kinda' odd with the country going socialist.

From what I've read Harley is getting spanked so hard because of bad loans. It's their Eaglemark Bank that's taking them down coupled with bike sales being off industry wide. I guess handing out 15% 84 month loans to people with bad credit wasn't such a good idea after all.
 

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The Toad
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Looks like that Union organizing stuff that works pretty good in prosperous times but doesn't work worth spit in a recession. HD'll move the plant to "right-to-work" Kentucky anyhow. Wanna bet?

This is happening all over. New York and California with their overtly anti-business political structures are collapsing economically. States like Utah and Texas with more business friendly environments are reaping big gains from those kicked-in-the-head States.
 

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MODERATOR X
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Just wait 'till Harley starts selling those Hyosung-based ATK's with Harley Davidson stickers on the tank!

There will be lines around the block to get inside and purchase one of the Asian-Anglo-Euro machines, with fist-fights breaking out on the showroom floor to see who gets one first!

Oh happy days are here again! Can't ya just feel it? We're saved by the insight of several marketing genius types at HD's design division!

Who needs a Buell with that old skunky Sportster motor? Give me a tin-plated Suzuki knockoff with some guady chrome doo-dads on it!

YEAH HARLEY!
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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"States like Utah and Texas with more business friendly environments are reaping big gains from those kicked-in-the-head States."

You mean 'business friendly like this??

Wal-Mart to pay $40M to workers in Mass. - Yahoo! News

Classic statement:

"Resolving this litigation is in the best interest of our company, our shareholders and our associates. These cases were filed years ago, and the allegations are not representative of the company we are today," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Daphne Moore said.

So what kind of company are they today? Better?? :rolleyes:
 

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Do you have a Job?

Does it pay you in money (as opposed to "blow" or vegetables)?

Are you breathing?

Well then, COME ON DOWN TO HARLEY-DAVIDSON! We got Road Glydes, we got Electra Glydes, and we got Astro-Glyde! (to help with the insertion of the MSRP)

Don't miss the LAST CHANCE (this week) to get yourself on a New Harley - and Get yer *** on..............

(all sales final. 15%APR is for qualified buyers only. qualified buyers may ride-away with their dignity mostly-intact. unqualified buyers may qualify to finance a t-shirt. some on-sale models may be Girly-Bike Sportsters. not everyone who qualifies for financing should be riding so much as a tricycle. rinse, lather, repeat. if I had to explain, you wouldn't understand. somebody stop me; before I subreference again.)
thanks, I needed that laugh this morning but H-D had been raping their customer base for 7 or 10+ years selling the bikes so far above fair market value (as determined by H-D themselves) that now they are selling them at a fair price but people that bought a bike from them 2 years ago now have the old motor, old chasis, and still owe more then the new redesigned model is selling for.
Yes, accepted lending practices also had alot to do with it no dobut but the lending leniency coupled with the overnight reduction in the value has caused alot of problems at the bank. there may be a suprlus of new and year old repos soon. I have to credit H-D for being able to create such a desire for their bikes in the first place but the harley market crashed just like real estate.
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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"but H-D had been raping their customer base for 7 or 10+ years selling the bikes so far above fair market value (as determined by H-D themselves)"

So if they were above 'fair market value', how exactly did they sell any? I don't want to say that this was a stupid statement until you answer.
 

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"but H-D had been raping their customer base for 7 or 10+ years selling the bikes so far above fair market value (as determined by H-D themselves)"

So if they were above 'fair market value', how exactly did they sell any? I don't want to say that this was a stupid statement until you answer.
I guess anything is worth what you can get for it, as they clearly demonstrated but the hindsight now they could've been a little more reasonable in their pricing then and it woludnt be affecting them as much now. cant blame someone with a 07 or 08 electra owing 20K being bitter when the 2010's are sitting there right now for 21K. I know locally theres alot for sale for more then the dealer is wanting for a new one. also the waiting list is gone
 

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"but H-D had been raping their customer base for 7 or 10+ years selling the bikes so far above fair market value (as determined by H-D themselves)"

So if they were above 'fair market value', how exactly did they sell any? I don't want to say that this was a stupid statement until you answer.
Idiotic statements like that show that people really don't understand the concept of LIBERTY.

There's no such thing as raping your customer. If people willingly walk in and pay the price, whatever that price may be, it's a total expression of Liberty in a free society.

Does Ferrari rape it's customers?

The only thing that can "rape" you is the gov't. It's all done by force.
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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"I guess anything is worth what you can get for it, as they clearly demonstrated"

And you would demonstrate the same thing if your bike was suddenly worth 8 grand more on the open market than you paid for it. Of course, you would be a nice guy and sell it at the 'fair market value' right? :rolleyes:



"cant blame someone with a 07 or 08 electra owing 20K being bitter when the 2010's are sitting there right now for 21K."

So would the Honda owners of VFR's that paid 11K for their bike last year be pi$$ed that Honda is selling them for under 8 grand this year? Did Honda 'rape' their customers then? Harley didn't discount their bikes. The guy that paid more than list did so becuase he wanted the bike. If he's pi$$ed off, he should look in the mirror as to why he overpaid. Harley sold the same amount of bikes no matter what the price was: all of them, so I don't get your 'point'. If you don't want one, and think they are overpriced, then don't buy one. If you pay over list, then be prepared to have paid too much for a product that may not be worth that much in the near future.
 

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sure if I found out I was sitting on some kinda goldmine I'd profit the best I could but if in a long term business situation like this I'm sure theres a few things H-D (and several other companies MC related & otherwise) wishes they had done differently

heres a stretch but please keep an open mind look at beanie babies the first one sold for $3, the last one sold for $3 in resale they sold for $20, but Ty kept selling them at a fair margin regardless of demand, the Rubix Cube, another example, noone could keep them on the shelves either, they coulda made it a factory direct only sale item at $50 and probably still sold out all they could produce but they diddnt

I know toys and motorsports are different industries and typically noone factors life expectancy or resale value into a toy purchacing decision but Im using them as a better economic decision that they companies made. They each coulda capitalized on their awesome product with an awesome demand during an awesome economy but they remained streamlined to their origional business plan, make a reasonable profit with a good product

(sorry got a little mushy here)
I want to say I'm not bashing H-D although it may appear that way and nothing personal against yours or anyones personal decisions. I love motorcycles in general more then I love the badge on the tank. I had a bicycle as a kid with a plastic gastank (complete with removable fuel cap) baseballcard & clothespin for motor sounds and rode the tires off it knowing something bigger was there, then at 14 got a Pugh moped black with gold mag wheels and 2 gears even after getting my driving permit and a car I rode it cause it had 2 wheels and thats where my heart was. We all love the joy our bikes give us and lets enjoy them how we chose
 

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I'll also add that my bike of choice if finances diddnt matter would be a Road Glide with single headlight front faring & tour pack primarily due to it being an awesome bike and the fixed faring and unmatched aftermarket support
 

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The Toad
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Idiotic statements like that show that people really don't understand the concept of LIBERTY.

There's no such thing as raping your customer. If people willingly walk in and pay the price, whatever that price may be, it's a total expression of Liberty in a free society.

Does Ferrari rape it's customers?

The only thing that can "rape" you is the gov't. It's all done by force.
The only way you can "rape" customers is to set up a protected monopoly. The only real way you can do that in the USA is to get the govt to pass laws protecting your business from competition. Sort of like the medical industry, education and other govt protected operations that charge to moon for poor service and bad results. Naturally to feel protected from getting "raped" the simple minded run to the govt to protect them.
 

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Super Duper Mod Man
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"heres a stretch.."

Yes it is. Don't bother to go there. Kiddie toys at 3 bucks are hardly comparable to a 20+ grand purchase. You also have to examine who was profiting and why. I knew people that would 'buy' 7 or 8 new Harleys a year and sell them to people for a 3 grand profit per unit. If you were a Harley dealer, how would you feel about that? I know what I would do, and that would be to charge the 3 grand over list and make that money myself. I guess you would just sell these people bikes and let them make the extra cause that's the kinda guy you are.


"I want to say I'm not bashing H-D although it may appear that way and nothing personal against yours or anyones personal decisions. I love motorcycles in general more then I love the badge on the tank."

Actually, you did bash H-D. It didn't just appear that way, you just did it. If you don't care about the badge on the tank, great. I have nothing against your personal decisions either, but to claim that H-D 'raped' their customers for 10 years wasn't exactly a bright statement to say the least. I could easily make the same claim against almost every motorcycle manufacturer.
 

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I was an active participant in the Eaglemark Bank fiasco. In 03/04 I was selling bikes for Rossmeyer both on the sales floor and via the Internet. I think it's hard to realize now just how desperately people wanted a Harley. And I think the Beenie Baby analogy is valid, the same MUST HAVE IT AT ANY COST hormonal rage applied (people paid hundreds of dollars for those things, and were happy to do it).

Eaglemark had few rules: you had to have owned a home for 5 years, or you had to be at your job for 2 years. If you didn't owe child support or have an active IRS tax lien, you were good to go. The rates were really high, 21% was the low end, they maxed at 33%, but people still bought. You had to have 10% down, but even that was easily skirted by bringing in an old frame and title. We'd value it up and then add that on the back end. There was a lot of creative paperwork done too; single income families suddenly became 2 income families...job letters were...well, you get the idea.

I remember a grown man crying in the middle of a busy sales floor when I couldn't get him financed. He'd been there all day, he'd gone from an Ultra to a Dyna to a Sportster, the F&I lady did every trick she could think of, he couldn't get financed. A few days later he showed up with cash; he'd closed his 401K and taken the IRS hit, pawned a coin collection, etc. to raise the $14k OTD price we were charging for a Sportster Custom. When he rode away, he was the happiest guy in Fort Lauderdale.
 

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I'd say that was typical. I (and The Wife) used to work for the SOB's...............
It's pretty pathetic when a company petitions the Legislature to raise the minimum wage so their employees can afford to buy the crap they sell. At least when Sam Walton was alive he made a point to buy stuff from US companies. Now it's fu<king Chinatown.
 
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