Motorcycle Forums banner

You asked for it: My Buell experience.

30K views 127 replies 42 participants last post by  pdad13 
Re: Maytag Man

Okay, okay. How 'bout a 50-year-old Maytag?

It was making some weird noises, okay?

And the Maytag in my place can't be more than 10-years old and it's sounding pretty bad. Almost as bad as the XB sounded when I started it.
 
Re: Buell Comfort?

Like I said, results may vary. I was prepared for an unbearable torture rack. The fact that it wasn't exceptionally painful was quite surprising. Don't think I meant that it was like riding a Gold Wing, just far more comfortable than I ever would have expected. After some of the things I read about the Firebolt's ergos, I thought I'd be in traction for a week. I felt fine.

And I don't think I'm even nuts enough to attempt to ride it for 1000 miles a clip. I think a 200 mile ride is more than enough for this type of bike.

I also agree that you really need some twisty roads to really appreciate the Bolt. While I was on it I was thinking what a shame it was that I couldn't bring it somewhere more appropriate to sample its charms.
 
Re: The price is NOT steep...

Yeah, well not around here. I was in a Harley dealer about a week ago and they didn't even have any XB12Rs left. Had one XB12S and they didn't seem to be dealing. Then again, they still don't seem to be very interested in them at all.

But let's say your theory is correct and I could get one for $9,000. Add the HD sodomy fees and I bet you're still close to 10k.

From what I can tell, the Buell basically fits into the 600 SS class. I understand the paying a premium for uniqueness, but they need to build a customer base. Based on the competition, this bike shouldn't cost more than $8,500. This probably isn't going to happen because of small production numbers and less than favorable economies of scale. (Remeber that H-D is a Wall Street darling, so an agressive pricing program, at a potential loss, to increase sales and production ain't gonna happen. It's a shame.) So for those of you who are willing to pay that much, God bless. It's hard for me to justify it.

Throw in the dealer apathy, which is palpable, and the high service fees, and the Buell experience can become potentially frustrating and quite expensive.

And I still think I want one.
 
Re: The price is NOT steep...

Um, I might be feeling a little different about the ergos after that trip.

I think I would buy the R model. I've already got a ZRX, so I would want something quite different. Besides, after getting accustomed to the bike, I enjoyed the riding position. Not everyone will, but I did. In some respects it seemed more civilized that many sportbikes.

Not sure I'd be happy about spending the coin for the airfare, taking a five hour flight to FantasyLand, and then being ignored by another Harley salesperson.

It would be a hell of an experience to ride cross country, though. Maybe...
 
Hey, man. If you don't already know, there's a nice little mention of you in the most recent Cycle World (letters section). A reader wrote to lament your absense. The Ed. replied with little blurb about how they missed you but you're making too much money writing ad copy so you won't return their calls, yada, yada, yada...



Just thought you'd like to know.



And welcome to the tortured, masochistic creed of advertising copywriters. I know your pain.



XB9: I was considering the 9 because I heard that the race kit makes a big difference. You really feel that strongly? I haven't had a chance to ride a 9.
 
Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

Yeah, you're right. I thought about that, too. Once you get used to it, there's something very endearing about that motor. The tourque is enormous and, once the revs climb a little, it really does smooth out and feel very cool. Totally different than my daily inline-four experience. And that IS one of the things I grew to really like about the bike.

Lest anyone be confused, this bike in no way feels like a Sportster. Except maybe when you're watching the front wheel bob around at idle.

I did ask myself if I would like it as much, or more, if it had a more mainstream, high tech engine. The answer is probably. I do think Buell has enough new-think engineering, not to mention styling, to continue to stand on their "different" positioning. And because the motor continues to be the source of most of the critisism, a new one would most certainly open the door to mainstream acceptance. Will they lose some of their core audience? Maybe. But what will they gain?

Stand-out-from-the-pack looks, stunningly different engineering, excellent chassis, reliability (hopefully), American-made AND a top-flight motor. How many do you think they'd sell? Even a premium price?

I think I know the answer to that one. I'd be saving my pennies and wouldn't carp one bit about the price.

We must also remember that there is a percieved value to things. This is very important to people when they go to purchase something, even if that value brings no measurable functional advantage. For sportbike buyers this is especially true. People are willing to pay for a Ducati, for example, because, aside from exclusivity and beauty, there is a percieved technical excellence built into each one. We imagine a team of engineers in Italy sifting though hundreds of exotic materials, making millions of calculations, poring over reams of computer designs until they get the optimum combination of finely developed parts. The designs are then handed over to master builders, who painstakingly hand assemble at least the first few prototypes. The bikes are tested and measured in every parameter known. Then, voila! An exotic sporting motorcyle is born.

Now, consider the imagery associated with Eric Buell's motorcycle: This guy from Wisconsin had a few cool ideas how to build a sport motorcycle. Unfortunately, the big wigs bankrolling the operation are more interested in selling 1950's-style cruisers, so they won't give him the money to develop a new, advanced engine to go along with his impressive chassis. So, he goes to plan B, which is to take an essentially 1940's engine architecture and redesign it. And voila! We have some sort of half-baked, developmentally-disabled, idiot-savant motorcycle.

(By the way, much of this may not be true. But we THINK it is.)

The question is, for 90% of all riders out there, is the first really a functionally better motorcyle than the second?

I'm not so sure it is. And even if the first is a functionally better bike, who's to say many people still woudn't enjoy the second better? I think we all lose sight of the fact that most of us will never line up on the starting grid next to Valentino Rossi. Or Ross Valentino--dry cleaner by weekday, club racer on Sunday--for that matter.

The problem, from a sales and acceptance standpoint, is that the Buell is so different, people, including yours truly, have trouble getting their heads and hearts wrapped around the idea of a cutting-edge chassis carring an old-tech motor. It doesn't compute. There is no percieved advantage to using such a lump--even if there may be some very tangible real world advantages. And I think I can now say that there are some indeed.

Interesting, ain't it?

(P.S.: Buell can never use an outsourced engine. It would do tremendous damage to their brand. They're trying to build an new-think engineering image. To go somewhere else for a motor would be mean admitting defeat and destroying that image. Whatever is developed has to be done in-house, or at least it needs to give that impression.)
 
Re: Excellent

KP, your incredible propensity for butt-smooching is beginning to put you back in my good graces. If you don't say something stupid soon, I may have to apologize for calling you all those nasty things.

Buz, help me.
 
Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

That's exactly my point. We assume that Eric must secretly be lusting for the funds to develop a liquid-cooled V-5? How could he not, right?

Well, maybe he's not. And maybe he has a good reason. After all, how many of us here are engineers that can even begin to really grasp what he's talking about? I'd guess not too many.

That being said, I've read/heard E.B. say the exact same things that you've referenced. You must admit that at least some of it smacks of P.R.

The apathy at the H-D dealers towards Buell is so thick you couldn't cut it with a jack hammer. They don't even really understand the bike. This is some indication that H-D is not entirely behind Eric. You could argue that this is a dealer problem, but I'm sure that if H-D told them to get on the stick, they'd hop to.
 
Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

Agreed on all points.

Except, I really like the idea of Buell. If they can't sell enough units at an acceptable margin to justify the recent investment and their existence in general, H-D will eventually pull the plug. Sure, I might be able to get a good deal on one, but that spells trouble for the company. I know they have a very small staff (something like 50 people), but they seem to be spending a significant amount of money in advertising/marketing and development of the XB line must have cost a bundle. Are they selling enough to make a profit or at least break even? I wonder.

Also, I would argue that by increasing sales, and therefore production, prices should go DOWN. Although, with H-D's pricing philosophy (which has been very successful) they may not see it that way. H-D essentially owns the cruiser segment in this country so they can charge just about whatever they want. Buell will be playing in a very different arena. They may be able to charge a bit of a premium, but they're going to have to be price competitive with the 600 SS class. If the $2K discounts become common, that's a step in the right direction. But the fact that the XB12 has an $11,000 MSRP leads me to believe that they don't want to discount that steeply and that they're being forced to in order to turn inventory. This is also not a good sign.

As I posted above, Buell, at its current production rate, probably doesn't have favorable economies of scale. So they probably want every penny of that $11,000 if they can get it. To improve E.O.S., they'll have to build and sell more bikes. That probably means cutting pricing. Which probably means "hello, red ink," at least for a time. Being that H-D is a Wall Street darling, I doubt they'd accept this strategy.

So the question is if Buell can exist as a niche manufacturer. I'm not sure they can. Then again, I'm not a finance guy, so someone tell me if I'm off base here.

Anyone have any other information?
 
Re: The modern engine predicament and...great job

Yes, true. I now have a whole new appreciation for the Sporty-based engine. And to remove it would greatly alter the character of the bike.

But this is all a matter of perception and hindsight, isn't it? If the XB had been orginally introduced with an all new V-Twin--let's call it the "Sh*tstorm"-- that "everyone" agreed was a great engine, you wouldn't be able to imagine the bike being anything but Sh*tstorm-powered, would you?

Listen, I like the bike the way it is, too. I just don't want to pay $10-11K for it the way it is.
 
Re: Volume, volume, volume...

"What they need is more dealer support or even seperate shops so the Buell line isn't treated like an ugly step child."

This is absolutely one of Buell's biggest problems. Couldn't agree more.
 
Re: The price is NOT steep...

Sorry, don't have the facilities to work on my own bikes. And Harley service ain't cheap. Plus, I've heard that many of the H-D service shops aren't even up to speed on the Buells, so if something goes wrong, your bike could be laid up for aeons. Do they have morons working at H-D dealers?

Good to know about the ease of maintaining them, though. Another plus for Buells.
 
Re: You don't have to pay $10-11K!!

Do you work there? Or are they just giving you a cut? :)

Being that I live in New York, how do you propose I get the bike home? Plus, if there's a problem with the bike, I'm pretty sure the local H-D dealers are not going to be all that helpful. And then I've got to go through some registration hassle, I'm sure.

Hey, what's the sales tax in AZ?

Okay, okay. I'll check out the web site.

Thanx, GB.
 
Re: You don't have to pay $10-11K!!

Yeah, you see this is the problem. I have shipped a bike from Colorado. Arizona would probably fall within the same shipping zone. And you're right, it'll cost about $650-$700. Add that to the price and were up to $9700. Dealer prep is going to be about $400 minimum, right (if they charge the same as they do for a H-D)? Now we're up to 10k already. Then I've got to deal with the registration.

My point is that I really like the Buell. But I can also go to my Kawasaki dealer and get a leftover 2003 ZX-636 for a lot less out the door. And I'd have it prepped and home in about three hours. I can get an 2003 SV1000S for about $7,200 at my local Suzuki dealer. Different bikes, very different experiences, I know. But it's still hard to justify ten grand for the Buell. For some, the extra couple of thousand isn't an issue and that's fine. But for me it is.

Hell, when I'm ready, maybe I'll just find a nice used XB-9, get the race kit installed and be done with it.

Or maybe those discounts will roll this way soon.
 
Hmmmm. Bike had less than 1000 miles on it, so it should have been broken in but not abused. I think I can also assume that motorcycle rental agencies must be more diligent about upkeep than, say, a car rental agency, given the liability issues. (This was no fly-by-night shop either. It was a H-D dealer.) So I doubt they would have put me out on a bike that was mechanically dubious. It's bad for business in so many ways, numbnuts. The rental agent also told me they don't rent that bike much. Most people want cruisers down there (so I do agree with your point about this not being the best route to "test" a bike such as this. In fact, I said that very thing.)



Two: Yeah, I forgot to turn the engine switch on. If you were reading, and not grunting to yourself, you would have noticed that I was preoccupied with my feelings of dread about the bike. Plus it was kind of funny, so I mentioned it. No doubt an uber-skilled rider such as yourself would never do such an inexcusable thing. And God forbid anyone else admitting to such a crime! What was I thinking?



Three: My fond rememberance of New York drivers was an example of something adults (at least those with proper mental development) call SARCASM. Of course I don't think New York drivers are good, Skippy. I was just freaked by how bad the drivers in Miami were on that day. By the way, I've been to Miami more than once and I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of Miami natives who've never lived in New York. (Ever hear of a nice litte island called Cuba? How 'bout the rest of the U.S.A.?) So while I'm sure there are many, many dangerous NY-transplanted blue hairs and young chessebucket-types terrorizing the roadways, I'd be willing to be that that MOST (means "more than half") of the people who live are not actually from NY. I believe this to be true because, among all of our driver safety sins, we at least know how to MERGE. Obviously, many Miamians don't.



Four: How many times did I say that I wasn't writing a proper road test? Okay, at least once. In fact, I preferred to refer to it as a "rider impression." It was my only chance to ride a Buell, any Buell, for any extended period of time. So the fact that it was the wrong trip for that bike didn't deter me one bit. Apparently your poor comprehension skills let you down once again. This was never intended to be a "test." The fine people at MO do a wonderful job of testing all by themselves.



The story here was how my attitude towards the bike changed--I really did hate it at first. And how, maybe, we're all a little afraid to try something that goes against the grain. Maybe we're all missing something.



Okay, bigjames? You don't have to agree with what I say. I'm just an average rider with an opinion. That doesn't make me an idiot. Not sure I can say the same about you.
 
Remember, much of my initial problem with the bike was merely because it was so different that what I ride on a regular basis (currently, a Kawi ZRX). And I really think that's one of the problems people have giving Buell any credit. It's a very different approach than what their used to.



Once I figured out how the best way to ride it, I really enjoyed it. I've never ridden an RC 51, but I'd bet that there are some advantages to the XB12. It's just hard for most of us to accept because we think there's no way we could enjoy a bike with an old-style pushrod motor as much, or maybe even more, than the latest and greatest. That's why I wrote this thing. Not to give you a technical analysis, but to try to look at the bike in a different light. A light that we all live under but rarely see. Most of us are too busy looking at specs.



By the way, the gearbox did get better for me, too. It still wasn't as good as I would expect, but it's just an imperfection that I could live with.



If the bike stays reliable, and you enjoy it, be happy with it. Don't second-guess every time you look at your friends RC. You've got a cool, unique bike there. At least in my opinion.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top