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Pally, respect doesn't matter at all on a bike

People can tell you're a crap rider on the street when you get in an accident riding a bike you can't handle. Obviously, Doopster, you got lucky, but that is no reason to go suggesting dude gets a more 'respectful' bike than a more reasonable starter bike. I think if a rider cares more about 'respect' than safety, he/she should stay the hell off of bikes. I don't care for making excuses for fools that get themselves whacked looking for form over function. And as old bikers, we find ourselves doing that more than we should have to.

Cheers!

PS I seriously doubt the ZZR will have better resale than the 650. The zzr is one of the ugliest pieces I have ever seen.
 

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How about a used Ninja 500R? Ride it for a couple months and sell it for about the same as you bought it for.



Actually, anything USED as a first bike will be better. When you drop a new bike you will be sorry and mad you did not get a used one. And, yes, you will drop it.
 

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Re: Pally, respect doesn't matter at all on a bike

Everyone is talking about the guy getting a bike beyond his limits to handle but what if he ends up with a bike where his limits are beyond the capability of the bike.

The ZZR600 on paper is a safer bike, better brakes, more grip, more predictable handling when pushing it.

He could end up avoiding an accident because of the better handling characteristics of a sporty bike.

Just kidding :)
 

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First of all, why do people keep saying no to either bike and then say "get an SV650"??? The SV will whoop the 650R and has way more low end than the ZZR. If you keep the ZZR under 8 grand it has less power than either of the twins.



That said, if I could go back I'd start on a nice 250 dirt bike or dual-sport (I started on a Nighthawk 700S). Something you can learn how to throw around like a sack of potatos, control at the limit, etc, and not deal with lots of weight. You can get power later.
 

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Re: Drop

Well one time.......I was riding with a friend from Carlsbad to Prescott, AZ. I was on my '96 Low Rider and he on his Kawi Concours. We swapped bikes for a while just for fun shortly after dark. I was quite a ways ahead of him and stopped to wait. After a short period of time I didn't see him and started to turn around to look for him.

The connie has a 7 1/2 gallon tank and when full that beast is really top heavy! The bike started to tip during my u turn and then really started to lean. I hung on for all I was worth knowing how much Japanese plastic cost. I righted the ship and shortly after my friend caught up.
 

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Re: Drop

U turns are the worst. I also started to tip my CB350 on a U turn on a steep ass hill, with my friend on the back, about 19 years ago, and she didn't know enough to not keep her ankle away from the pipe. That was a depressing non-fall. Now I know better, and avoid U turns on hills or with passengers. Although it's not such a problem, because my wife won't ride anyway ...
 

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ok, Well I will try to hit on a few of your questions . I am an owner of a 2006 zzr and before I purchased it I was very interested in the 650R . First off there are some major differences in these bikes .

ZZR - fairly aggresive riding position , lots of wieght on your wrists but good position for control and not to tiring

650R - much less aggressive wider bars more upright . Better position for beginners as it allows for a little less skill to menuever the machine .

ZZR-inline four , brutally fast (the comment on wheelies ) every time i hit the powerband which is about 9000 rpm in my experiance it will easily lift the front wheel whether you like it or not . Next (stoppies) with 6 piston calipers I would suggest if you buy this particular motorcycle you be very very careful with the front brakes .

650R- twin low end torque very subdued power delivery , again good for beginners but can become boring quickly . Decent brakes again lower quality to offset cost in this particular model but still more than adequate .



The insurance on either of these will be expensive for you but alot of that is dependant on where you live . I live in ft lauderdale so i get hit with miami rates(which is the bike theft capital of the world) . Be prepared to have a insurance payment that could exceed your bike payment if you get comp and collision on any sportbike.



Next if you ride in miami be prepared to spend ALOT of time stuck at traffic lights . In my experiance the ZZR doesnt really like this but I can say that it has never overheated .



Then there is a cost factor ZZR= around 7500 out the door while the ninja is about 1000 dollars less . There is a clear performance difference in that cost cutting . Anyway to make a long story short the 650 is much better suited to a beginner ,but the zzr is much more motorcycle that if respected for what it is could be grown into (but if you get greedy it will make you pay dearly ) . This is just my opinion but the msf course will not prepare you for what you will find when you drive a new bike home from a dealer . BIG BIG difference between a 250 rebel and a kawasaki sportbike not to mention the insane cagers in florida so be careful .

Lastly if you are truly interested to answer your last question about a dealer I found cycle world of west palm beach very helpful . They are a small family owned kawasaki dealer that treats you like a person unlike many of the other dealerships in florida that I've dealt with . I hope this helped a little . Just remember everyone has an opinion on the right beginner bike but the final decision and the one who pays for that decision is you.......good luck
 

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kawi ex500 no doubt.



more important, you're in FL, right? do you intend to wear a helmet?



last time I was there, I was the only person wearing one. most everyone else had on tank-tops and flip-flops and no helmet.



 

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I asked the same question three years ago, and got the same mixed responses.



Went my own way, bought a real cheap dual sport 650 single, farted around on the thing, slowly finding the limits, starting by the least dangerous ones (like basic balance) in every respective iteration, and just kept practicing everything every way I could think of, till it was all second nature and I felt as comfortable as if the bike was my legs and the tires the skin of my feet.



Sold the piece of crap and converted a 450 SX to road use and I'm happy.

In 6 months I move back to the US and I'll get something heavier like a speed triple, tuono, or sportbike..

Point is, even if you need to use the bike as transportation, two/three months dedicated to learning the snot out of the cheapest functional bike you can find is plenty.
 

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you converted a ktm 450 motocrosser for the road ? why didnt you just buy the exc instead ? i had the sx and the suspension when not being pounded with 150foot table tops was about as flexible as an iron bar
 

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All this to big bike stuff is unfounded till you take into account age,size and primary use. My first ride was a KZ 750 followed by a FZ 600 then a Ninja 750 then a FJ 1200 THat covers 1978 till a 1990. Then the GSXR and FZR big blocks could be handled. A 650r would be a great first bike. A ZX -6R is a bike that used with a little restraint would be a keeper no need to trade up .
 

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I started on a 2003 636 and believe me if you have patience, desire, and care, you can learn on any bike...I am still riding this same bike and have never even come close to dropping. 11k+ miles and still happy I didn't listen and trusted my truthful judgment of my character to start on the 636 instead of a 250...Anyone recommending a 250 has merits but be real, riding 2000 miles and then switching to a 600 is like starting over...This is my opinion and know quite a few people who started on 600s and not smaller bikes. All of them have not dropped a bike and most have been riding over three years. Revving 14k to get any umph is pretty frustrating so if you like this idea then get a 250.
 

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500cc or larger

Lots of people say get a 250 then upgrade. That makes perfect sense if you're fearful of having a bit too much power (from a newbie standpoint), or want something uber light to learn on, but seriously, if you take the MSF course first, you'll have an idea if a 250 is sufficient. My guess is you'll outgrow a 250 in 3-6 months.

I took the MSF many years back and bought a naked 500cc bike as my first. It was a bit top heavy, but I took it out and practices for a few weeks -- including taking a long ride the first month I owned it -- and you learn you can adapt to ANY bike after learning how it feels going both slow and fast. The key is keeping the speed down and practicing with the weight/balance. I dropped mine a few times the first year on gravel or putting around, but learning how to pick it up and balance was invaluable. I do recommend going for an unfaired bike your first time, so you don't get stuck with sticker shock the first time you tip it over or drop it at low speed. Get your kick-ass, fully faired sportbike after you get some confidence and skill first.

I'd recommend you get a older GS 550, Seca II, Nighthawk 650, or Interceptor 500 (if you find 'em) to start with and your budget's tight, but a 650R or SV650 are both perfectly suitable starter bikes if you respect 'em. The ZZR is probably more sportbike than you need to start, and a twin is easier to learn to ride slow on.
 
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